Has anyone tried super stop leak. Read about on the internet and was wondering if it really works. I have a small leak I can not find in my home a/c system
super stop leak for R22
sondown
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Let me put it this way: If this job was easy everybody could do (and there are some guys who think it is).
We as servicerers have the responsibility of following quality work methods
which include staying with in the mfgs install and service requirements.
Show me where Copeland endorses the use of the gunk to stop leaks and I'll agree with you.
I hate to say this but refrigeration system servicing, as practiced by a great deal of AC guys, leaves much to be desired. You will find more moisture in R22 systems used for comfort cooling then in any other sector of refrigeration. That's not me just spouting that, that's surveys conducted by HVAC NEWS< RSC Magazine. All reputable and top of the heap authorities.
So saying, since this gunk is activated by moisture are you going to chance putting it in a system that has had several other guys do a gas and go on it?
So if the customer does not want to pay to tare out walls or the folks upstairs say no way. You as a good tech willing to do the tough job would walk away, sorry Mr and Mrs ho your f'ed because although others have success with leak seal I as a purist refuse to use a product that is not endorsed by the manufacturer. Even though your warranted is over and we have no other option sorry.
They can do it the old fashion way open the F'ing windows. By the way that will be $650.00 now I need to go home to my air conditioning.
PS: give them my number Ill get them a few more years of ac.:laughing:
Making them run that is the job right?
They can do it the old fashion way open the F'ing windows. By the way that will be $650.00 now I need to go home to my air conditioning.
PS: give them my number Ill get them a few more years of ac.:laughing:
Making them run that is the job right?
I read a few and had to stop. I agee with C-LOVER. You are about to create a restriction. If you really want it fixed, you first need to understand that topping off a system each spring is not required. The cooper tubing should be impenatrable, sealed, closed... Get the point!?! Follow EPA guidelines and recover your R-22, pressurize the circuit with nitrogen and spray your joints, coils, and u-bends with bubbles. Your leak can be located. Once found and repaired, replace your drier and replace the factory recommended charge and ask the ditributor how much more may be neccessary for your line set. Fix it right the first time and don't hope for these gimmicks to get you by, they'll only cost you more in the long run. If you aint qualified, find someone who is!!! This isn't a DIY job for the handyman or homeowner looking to save a buck. Did i mention the EPA?
lASTLY
lASTLY
So you would rip out three walls in three apartments to find a leak in a system that is ten plus years old rather than install stop leak after informing your customer of the potential risks?
Keep in mind I have used this on several occasions NEVER had a problem with a metering device after.
How many systems have you used supper seal in?
How many malty story or malty family homes do you work on?
Do you ever work on systems others installed.
Knowing when to use a patch or when to buy new pants that's what separates the men from the ?
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Never used the stuff, but there may be scenarios in which it it may be the best solution. Most homeowners care about getting the system fixed right, but at a minimum of expense. Frequently, the expense thing is the priority. Doc lets the home owner know about the leak sealer and the potential drawback. If the homeowner chooses super-seal, sobeit. If the repair man wants to volunteer his/her time to look for the leak the old fashioned way...great. But it isn't fair to the customer to put "your professional pride" before the customers best interest. Afterall, time is money. If all they want is a patch, then patch it.
Granted, there is a fine line betweeen a homeowner wanting a patch and the service provider encouraging a patch. But thats another topic
Granted, there is a fine line betweeen a homeowner wanting a patch and the service provider encouraging a patch. But thats another topic
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Why the EPA? If the gunk seals up the system I would think they would be happy with the stuff.
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I do recall an article in which some technician was hearalded as a hero for saving an institution (hospital I think) a lot of money, by using some form of gunk. The system had always leaked before.
I respect both opinions. You shouldn't have to use gunk. When trying to locate a hard to find leak, I like to isolate each component (refrigerant lines, evaporator and condensor) pressurize each one with nitrogen, come back a day or two later to see which component did not hold, and take it from there.
However, the situation could arise in which the equipment is "old", and the home owner doesn't want to buy new gear, and doesn't want to spend a lot of money looking for the leak. I don't think it's unethical or hack-like to use the stuff in this case.
Do you take everyones suggestions this personal? We' haven't had luck with it where i work and our service manger steers us away from the stuff ( i don't remember wahat it was called though). Do what you've got to do my friend, i wasn't trying to offend. My point was if you are able to repair it in the traditional fashion why not try to. Wasn't sure what effort the guy put into leak search before adding gunk to his system, that's all. Now chill, I apologize if you think I stepped on your toes.
Well if you are sidding with Drac on this he said anyone who usses seal is a hack. Now I sing the praises of supper seal in the right situation. Which makes Dracula's comment very personal (He called me a Hack ) it doesn't get any personaler then that.
Fisrt and foremost i sided with hvaclover and thats as far as i went, just for this reason. I called nobody a hack. I'm not even sure what level of skill the guy posting this article has. I tried to methodically explain a method of leak searching for a man who is a POSSIBLE do it yourself-er. Just trying to be helpful!!! READ thoroughly before you acuse the wrong person of offending you! Take that issue up with Drac!!!
This thread starts off with the question " has anyone used..." sounds like a green quaestion to me. I am done with this one
This thread starts off with the question " has anyone used..." sounds like a green quaestion to me. I am done with this one
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I posted a while back on this subject and it seems a few more posts have popped up, unfortunately there still seems to be a misunderstanding about the stop leak itself.
There are two concepts in the manufacturer of A/C stop leaks, one is based on a polymer activation and the other is never activated. You can easily tell the difference by looking at the packaging. The ones that are in metal pressurized cans are polymers and are the ones to stay away from, while the liquids in simple plastic bottle are the save ones.
One post said he saw snot coming out of his gages, this is a polymer type and it should be "outlawed". The other type is "non activated" and will never create slime, thick, hard or granular floaters. Additionally, they are not seal swellers (as someone posted) and will do no harm to any rubber or component.
I laughed at the comment made that it... "sounds like a salesman", regarding my last post. Well I am a salesman and HVAC specialist, but I also happen to be a mechanical and chemical engineer that has personally designed and manufactured many products for the worldwide industrial marketplace. One particular product is the number one selling ac stop leak and it truly makes sense to use it when a customer does not have the money or the time to tear their house apart. As Dr Heat says, "Knowing when to use a patch or when to buy new pants that's what separates the men from the _____ ".
It may be that some of you are not up to date with the newest technologies, but chemicals are light years ahead of where they were just 10 years ago. Additionally, there are dozens of unscrupulous companies that would sell there mother to slave traders if they could make a buck on it.
I would like to give you a real world example (and even a phone number for verification if you write me personally), of why you all need to reconsider stop leaks.
A highly respected HVAC man in N. Florida, who is the maintenance engineer for an entire country government, had a major problem with leaky A/C units. Because the county had a minimal working budget they were unable to afford to replace or substantially repair dozens upon dozens of systems in various municipal building. After treating with our Stop Leak, all leaks were sealed and have been now for over two years. He told me that he even found some units were drawing less amperage to run, 35 to 5%.
I know this post is going to draw a lot of criticism and skepticism, so I am saying this as clearly as possible. I hope everyone reading this will at least open their mind to new ideas and at least consider the possibility that as things change, we need to reconsider what my have seemed impossible only a few years ago.
As a final note I would like to comment on what "hvaclover" posted....
"We as servicerers have the responsibility of following quality work methods which include staying with in the mfgs install and service requirements."
"Show me where Copeland endorses the use of the gunk to stop leaks and I'll agree with you."
"You will find more moisture in R22 systems used for comfort cooling then in any other sector of refrigeration. That's not me just spouting that, that's surveys conducted by HVAC NEWS< RSC Magazine. All reputable and top of the heap authorities. So saying, since this gunk is activated by moisture are you going to chance putting it in a system that has had several other guys do a gas and go on it?"
1. Manufactures continually change their opinions over the years and many times it is a 180 degree shift. Does that mean the first opinions was actually wrong when they were saying it was right????
2. Again, we are all human and make mistakes and opinions change as time goes along. Remember when mold was turned into penicillin????
3. Moisture was mentioned and that seems to be the biggest complaint about using a stop leak, according to this tech. Well what if the product did not activate by moisture, would it then be OK in his opinion???
I have worked with systems for decades and I appreciate all of you letting me spout about this. Yes I believe A/C systems can be harmed by some stop leaks, but I also believe and can prove that others work and do no harm. Just open your mind to new ideas and at least get the facts straight before attacking a product, especially one that has potential for helping millions of people in these economically troubled times.
There are two concepts in the manufacturer of A/C stop leaks, one is based on a polymer activation and the other is never activated. You can easily tell the difference by looking at the packaging. The ones that are in metal pressurized cans are polymers and are the ones to stay away from, while the liquids in simple plastic bottle are the save ones.
One post said he saw snot coming out of his gages, this is a polymer type and it should be "outlawed". The other type is "non activated" and will never create slime, thick, hard or granular floaters. Additionally, they are not seal swellers (as someone posted) and will do no harm to any rubber or component.
I laughed at the comment made that it... "sounds like a salesman", regarding my last post. Well I am a salesman and HVAC specialist, but I also happen to be a mechanical and chemical engineer that has personally designed and manufactured many products for the worldwide industrial marketplace. One particular product is the number one selling ac stop leak and it truly makes sense to use it when a customer does not have the money or the time to tear their house apart. As Dr Heat says, "Knowing when to use a patch or when to buy new pants that's what separates the men from the _____ ".
It may be that some of you are not up to date with the newest technologies, but chemicals are light years ahead of where they were just 10 years ago. Additionally, there are dozens of unscrupulous companies that would sell there mother to slave traders if they could make a buck on it.
I would like to give you a real world example (and even a phone number for verification if you write me personally), of why you all need to reconsider stop leaks.
A highly respected HVAC man in N. Florida, who is the maintenance engineer for an entire country government, had a major problem with leaky A/C units. Because the county had a minimal working budget they were unable to afford to replace or substantially repair dozens upon dozens of systems in various municipal building. After treating with our Stop Leak, all leaks were sealed and have been now for over two years. He told me that he even found some units were drawing less amperage to run, 35 to 5%.
I know this post is going to draw a lot of criticism and skepticism, so I am saying this as clearly as possible. I hope everyone reading this will at least open their mind to new ideas and at least consider the possibility that as things change, we need to reconsider what my have seemed impossible only a few years ago.
As a final note I would like to comment on what "hvaclover" posted....
"We as servicerers have the responsibility of following quality work methods which include staying with in the mfgs install and service requirements."
"Show me where Copeland endorses the use of the gunk to stop leaks and I'll agree with you."
"You will find more moisture in R22 systems used for comfort cooling then in any other sector of refrigeration. That's not me just spouting that, that's surveys conducted by HVAC NEWS< RSC Magazine. All reputable and top of the heap authorities. So saying, since this gunk is activated by moisture are you going to chance putting it in a system that has had several other guys do a gas and go on it?"
1. Manufactures continually change their opinions over the years and many times it is a 180 degree shift. Does that mean the first opinions was actually wrong when they were saying it was right????
2. Again, we are all human and make mistakes and opinions change as time goes along. Remember when mold was turned into penicillin????
3. Moisture was mentioned and that seems to be the biggest complaint about using a stop leak, according to this tech. Well what if the product did not activate by moisture, would it then be OK in his opinion???
I have worked with systems for decades and I appreciate all of you letting me spout about this. Yes I believe A/C systems can be harmed by some stop leaks, but I also believe and can prove that others work and do no harm. Just open your mind to new ideas and at least get the facts straight before attacking a product, especially one that has potential for helping millions of people in these economically troubled times.
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Stop Leaks, do they clog systems?
"hvaclover... Sorry dude. That stuff is a restriction waiting to happen. The stuff activated by moisture or 02 will clog where ever moisture or 02 is present. The oil mentioned earlier is just a gasket conditioner and is meant strictly for the automotive field. Nothing that seals a leak can not help but deposit it self in metering devices."
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Well, where do I begin?
Sorry to you dude, but I guess you better go back to school and study chemistry. You don't know the difference between polymer and non polymer, plus you don't understand micro or nano particles technology.
We manufacture a product called Stop Leak Plus and it is "non polymer" a/c conditioner, that means it is not activated by moisture. You can pour it on a table and in a month it will still be a liquid. Try that with Stop Leaks that come in the pressurized cans, like ClipLite and SuperSeal. They are the ones that damage systems because they are polymer based and are activated by moisture.
Regarding the gasket conditioner (seal sweller) comment, we do build our platform on specially blended proprietary synthetic oils. So yes, they do condition the compressor and rest of the system, but that's not related to how we stop leaks.
Our patented "Micro Particulates" are added to our special oils, by the millions, and that is what seals tiny pin holes in tubing, condensers and evaporator coils. What you need to understand is they are fixed in size and already made, before they ever go into a system. They range in size from 1 micron to about 30 microns and they just float in the oil and freon as it circulates in a system, passing through every metering device. Do you know of any metering device that is smaller that 50 microns? I didn't think so. There is no way for a particle that is smaller than the smallest openings in the system to clog the system.
We have offered our SLP for over 20 years and have never had a single claim for damage, for any part, for anything! Please don't talk about subjects you are not technically familiar with or at least have studied on, before making a comment. A/C service is a science in itself but chemistry is a completely different one, be aware that the two are light years apart. Please don't lump us in with products that don't work, just as there are some good A/C techs out there there are some good products too.
Technical is available on this subject, you can take a look at...
stop HVAC leak dot com
Hope this settles the matter, you just can't bash things you "think" are no good.
"hvaclover... Sorry dude. That stuff is a restriction waiting to happen. The stuff activated by moisture or 02 will clog where ever moisture or 02 is present. The oil mentioned earlier is just a gasket conditioner and is meant strictly for the automotive field. Nothing that seals a leak can not help but deposit it self in metering devices."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, where do I begin?
Sorry to you dude, but I guess you better go back to school and study chemistry. You don't know the difference between polymer and non polymer, plus you don't understand micro or nano particles technology.
We manufacture a product called Stop Leak Plus and it is "non polymer" a/c conditioner, that means it is not activated by moisture. You can pour it on a table and in a month it will still be a liquid. Try that with Stop Leaks that come in the pressurized cans, like ClipLite and SuperSeal. They are the ones that damage systems because they are polymer based and are activated by moisture.
Regarding the gasket conditioner (seal sweller) comment, we do build our platform on specially blended proprietary synthetic oils. So yes, they do condition the compressor and rest of the system, but that's not related to how we stop leaks.
Our patented "Micro Particulates" are added to our special oils, by the millions, and that is what seals tiny pin holes in tubing, condensers and evaporator coils. What you need to understand is they are fixed in size and already made, before they ever go into a system. They range in size from 1 micron to about 30 microns and they just float in the oil and freon as it circulates in a system, passing through every metering device. Do you know of any metering device that is smaller that 50 microns? I didn't think so. There is no way for a particle that is smaller than the smallest openings in the system to clog the system.
We have offered our SLP for over 20 years and have never had a single claim for damage, for any part, for anything! Please don't talk about subjects you are not technically familiar with or at least have studied on, before making a comment. A/C service is a science in itself but chemistry is a completely different one, be aware that the two are light years apart. Please don't lump us in with products that don't work, just as there are some good A/C techs out there there are some good products too.
Technical is available on this subject, you can take a look at...
stop HVAC leak dot com
Hope this settles the matter, you just can't bash things you "think" are no good.
Jeez partsman. Over three years to respond to hvaclover's post? That may be a new record. Anyway, I think if you want to get his attention these days, you just need to post something about how the AK900 is better than the SMAN3 and he will come running to rip you a new one. :laughing:
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To DuMass... It's just that I visit hundreds of posts, travel worldwide for shows and training and still oversee the handle of thousands of larger orders we process yearly. I just don't have time to fight with people that don't get it, which was obvious from the comments hvaclover was posting. I would love to have him prove me wrong but he just kept spouting inaccuracies regarding moisture and how all stop leaks were the same. They are not and until he understands that fact, he will never find a better answer to leak repair than trial and error.
We have sold a patented, safe and popular product for over 20 years and it works well over 95% of the time. Why would any AC service tech not at least try it on a difficult leaker unit, just to prove if it does on does not work. If it works on a tough one, then why not end the nightmare of wasting time doing searches for leaks on others?
You can read more at... stop hvac leak. com
Please send me your comments, if you still have questions.
Thanks
We have sold a patented, safe and popular product for over 20 years and it works well over 95% of the time. Why would any AC service tech not at least try it on a difficult leaker unit, just to prove if it does on does not work. If it works on a tough one, then why not end the nightmare of wasting time doing searches for leaks on others?
You can read more at... stop hvac leak. com
Please send me your comments, if you still have questions.
Thanks
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443 Posts
If you could tell me which HVAC OEM endorses your product, I might use it on their equipment, otherwise the field tech is the guy whose is going to be blamed, no matter what. If it's not considered a 'standard practice of the industry' I'm steering away.
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4,010 Posts
Generally speaking, it's the older units that have leak issues, and the units are out of warranty. The way I see it, it's a reasonable last-ditch effort. I just let the h/o know my take on the product, and proceed accordingly.
I have used supper seal for years without a problem. You guy's who think you should find and repair a leak in a fifteen year old R22 system because you are pros. What is best for the customer. A $1500.00 dollar repair or a two hundred dollar repair?
I ran supper seal in a coil that had several leaks in it, this was supposed to be a temp repair until we could replace the RTU that was two seasons ago this spring added 1 pound of Freon.
I ran supper seal in a coil that had several leaks in it, this was supposed to be a temp repair until we could replace the RTU that was two seasons ago this spring added 1 pound of Freon.
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