perimeter caulk

boman47k · Dec 9, 2008

Any of you guys ever use any kind of perimeter caulk when doing floating laminate flooring? I noticed the floor guy at a house I recently did work at had some. I assume hewas going to use it to fill in the gaps around the perimeter of the rooms he installed a floating floor in. I have been to ask this for a while now.

I wouldn't think this would be necessary if the floor was done right, not only along the walls, but at the doorways around the jams also.

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

it's cheap insurance.
should be done in kitchens and bath's but why not everywhere?

boman47k · Dec 9, 2008

Even on 1/2 to maybe 3/4 gaps around the doorjams and along the walls where maybe shoemoulding might not cover it? Seems to me even if you got a "matchihng" color, there would still be a sheen difference. Or was that sarcasm? He had a jam saw, and I do not understand why the areas around the doorjams were gapped like they were. Or were you being sarcastic? :laughing:

jamestrd · Dec 9, 2008

only place i ever used caulk in this type of installation was along bathroom saddles

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

Even on 1/2 to maybe 3/4 gaps around the doorjams

There should be no gaps around door jambs. The jambs should be undercut with a jamb saw and slid under.
Only hope is to redo it, or fill in with color fill. But it may take a bunch of tubes. It will still be VERY visible.

boman47k · Dec 9, 2008

Florcraft said:
There should be no gaps around door jambs. The jambs should be undercut with a jamb saw and slid under.
Only hope is to redo it, or fill in with color fill. But it may take a bunch of tubes. It will still be VERY visible.

My thoughts exactly.

The thing I can't understand is he had a jamsaw. No idea why he didn't undercut all the jams so he could make nice square cuts and slide underneath.

Not really surprised after he explained to me how he fix a spongy place (dip) in the floor by nailing the laminate. I think that kind of kills the floating floor aspect.

lawndart · Dec 9, 2008

I've only caulked the perimeter in Kitchens (Around the cabinets).. I have been asked to, and refused to install wood, and laminate in bathrooms in the past. I'd rather walk away from it, then be called back because of moisture related issues in the future. IMO only ceramic, or Vinyl should be installed in a bathroom..

Mike Costello · Dec 9, 2008

Economy is too sucky to walk away from anything here in New England.

Just last week I put some engineered cherry in a bath. I tried to talk them out of it but the lady of the house was insistant . She saw it in a magazine and thats what she wanted. End of story.

So I glued it with Bosticks Best, glued the joints with Titebond and nailed it with my Powernails L cleats. Then I caulked around all edges and the toilet flange with some Phenoseal marine caulk.

Wont be my fault when it fails

lawndart · Dec 9, 2008

Mike Costello said:
Economy is too sucky to walk away from anything here in New England.

Just last week I put some engineered cherry in a bath. I tried to talk them out of it but the lady of the house was insistant . She saw it in a magazine and thats what she wanted. End of story.

So I glued it with Bosticks Best, glued the joints with Titebond and nailed it with my Powernails L cleats. Then I caulked around all edges and the toilet flange with some Phenoseal marine caulk.

Wont be my fault when it fails

Actually Mike, it will be. If they take you to court, the judge will side with them, because, you as a the professional should know better. Will the manufacturer of said engineered flooring back the warranty if the floor fails?

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

I'd rather walk away from it, then be called back because of moisture related issues in the future

That just doesn't make too much sense at all.
I have not seen a moisture issue come back to the installer unless they did not follow manufacturer instructions...so why worry about it?
Tile and Vinyl only in a Kitchen/Bath?
I can see recommendations maybe but not ONLY!
I am happy to hear you are able to walk away from jobs. Some people here are not that lucky.
That's good news for you.

I just disagree that only 2 floors should be put in any area.
Tile is cold, hard and is bad for the elderly because of their bones and fumbly fingers at times.
Vinyl is crap with no value at all.

Tile is durable and waterproof and Vinyl is cheap.
But by no means is it stupid to consider any other options.

lawndart · Dec 9, 2008

Florcraft said:
That just doesn't make too much sense at all.
I have not seen a moisture issue come back to the installer unless they did not follow manufacturer instructions...so why worry about it?
Tile and Vinyl only in a Kitchen/Bath?
I can see recommendations maybe but not ONLY!
I am happy to hear you are able to walk away from jobs. Some people here are not that lucky.
That's good news for you.

I just disagree that only 2 floors should be put in any area.
Tile is cold, hard and is bad for the elderly because of their bones and fumbly fingers at times.
Vinyl is crap with no value at all.

Tile is durable and waterproof and Vinyl is cheap.
But by no means is it stupid to consider any other options.

I'm sure I could've expanded on other options of flooring. However, Hardwood Flooring, and Laminate Flooring do not belong in a bathroom. You can glue the perimeter, and use the best adhesives on the market, it will not stop the floor from buckling in the future.

I've seen a couple dozen cases where hardwood, and Laminate flooring have failed in a bathroom. Show me an example of a reputable laminate or wood flooring manufacturer that warranties their product in a bathroom, and I might consider doing them in the future.

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

Wont be my fault when it fails

Exactly

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

I've seen a couple dozen cases where hardwood, and Laminate flooring have failed in a bathroom.

Your on the East coast!
What about all the wood that has been in Bathrooms for years!?
New York
Boston
New Hampshire
FLORIDA!

I have replaced ALL flooring because of flooding. Even tile because the flooding affected other things and required replacement.
No need to not recommend flooring because of floods.

Show me an example of a reputable laminate or wood flooring manufacturer that warranties their product in a bathroom,

Armstrong, Wilsonart, Quickstep...ect...ect..
not for floods though.
No, there is not one manufacturer of ANY product that warranties because of flooding.

Actually Mike, it will be.

No it will not be. Unless the instructions required some other form of install.
There is not a Judge on earth that will blame an installer for flooding.

Look....I know what you are saying. I just disagree about ONLY.
I can agree that is would be better for long standing moisture to go with sheet Vinyl or Tile.
But I do not agree that an installer can be blamed for moisture issues.

lawndart · Dec 9, 2008

Florcraft said:
I can agree that is would be better for long standing moisture to go with sheet Vinyl or Tile.
But I do not agree that an installer can be blamed for moisture issues.

With that logic, I guess its safe to throw away my moisture meter, and while I'm at it, forget acclimating the products, I always hated delivering the flooring 2 weeks early anyway.

BTW, I'm not talking about "flooding"... There is "long standing moisture" and high humidity levels in a bathroom, which is harmful to wood and laminate products.... You can choose to install in these conditions knowing the floor will fail in the future, but I will not just for the sake of getting a job, because times are slow.

dougchips · Dec 9, 2008

For what it's worth, I've never seen a solid wood floor in MA, ME or NH. I've seen wide pine plank floors in VT and VA. The wide planks ones move so much that I think the water just drains under them into the basement or into the sub-flooring.

In reference to laminate flooring, I have yet to see a job that I liked in kitchens or bathrooms (after it's been installed for a while). Since I'm seeing it after the installation and I am not there to inspect it I'm not sure if it is installer error, crappy product or just failure due to normal kitchen and bathroom moisture.

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

With that logic, I guess its safe to throw away my moisture meter, and while I'm at it, forget acclimating the products

ok ok I see how technical you are...allow me to restate

Installers will not be liable for moisture issues if they stick to manufacturer recommendations and standard install practices.

That means that lam and wood is still a viable choice.

BTW, I'm not talking about "flooding"... There is "long standing moisture" and high humidity levels in a bathroom

High humidity in a normal bath will not kill a floor, and longstanding moisture can be dealt with by the consumer.

All I am trying to say, is that it can work and work fine. Hundreds of thousands of people can't be wrong

Mike Costello · Dec 9, 2008

There is a little thing called due dilligence.

Where I took many steps to safegaurd the floor and strongly recommended against it I like my chances

Mike Costello · Dec 9, 2008

You serious? May be a bit of a stretch but I can say I see it at leastonce a week here in NH

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

Once a week in New Hampshire alone?!

OK maybe millions then.

I saw some houses in New Hampshire this year.
What an incredibly beautiful place to live.
I was in awe.....

Mike Costello · Dec 9, 2008

for the last ten years builders have been putting sand and finish hardwood in kitchens and half baths here pretty regularly.

Personally I dont really like it but I am certainly not going to put myself out of that market by refusing to do it.

As long as it is acclimated and installed properly I really cant see the liability issue for an installer that is doing it for a retailer.

Im sure Alaska is a beautiful place to live as well, I will make it out there some day

Mike Costello · Dec 9, 2008

If thats what the customer wants, thats what they want. You can arm them with all the information against it, but in the end they are gonna get someone to put it in for them.

May as well be me

Floorwizard · Dec 9, 2008

ypu. Agreed.

Let me know if you make it up here

lawndart · Dec 10, 2008

Called my distributor rep who deals with Quick Step, and Wilsonart. He basically said that the floor can't be installed in damp, or humid areas. A half bath is fine, but if installed in a bathroom with a shower, or jacuzzi, it will void the warranty..

PrecisionFloors · Dec 10, 2008

Distributor reps are notorious for giving out bad info. If you glue Wilsonart with Blue Fusion and caulk the perimeter, you can use it anywhere you please

Floorwizard · Dec 10, 2008

Yea, I agree.
I have actually been trained by quickstep the last 2 years as an official inspector for their product.
They know it's easy to tell if water damage causes delamination or not. It's very simple.
they do not warranty BEVELED products in the bath, but the square edge is fine.
As far as Wilsonart, the prior post says it all.
Your reps may be training you to be an easy client to deal with?
My reps disagree with yours.....

HallisseyDesign · Dec 13, 2008

I am IL- I have put hardwood in bathrooms and kitchens for as long as i have been doing it. I do not see why people say that the wood will buckle? Unless you use your floor as a swimming pool day in and day out it will be fine. When you get the floor wet what do you do? Wipe it up so you don't slip right? I know some of you guys are stuck in the wood is not good here here and here but like some of the other guys have said wood has been in bathrooms and kitchens forever. I only floors I have seen hurt by water is if there was a flood or a pipe pumping water onto it for a good amount of time. I personally don't like tile or ceramic, really cold in the midwest. The only ceramic I can stand is the big 24x24 squares. I can show you guys pictures of a floor that is in the upstairs bath at my house. Been there for 7 years doing just fine. 3 showers a day normally in there for 6 years.

Floorwizard · Dec 13, 2008

Yea, the only problem I have with it, is that I hear all the time that there are only 2 things to put into bathrooms. That just is not the case.
What should be said is that 2 things perform better with high moisture than wood. That would be correct.
Too many people try to convince others to prepare for a flood. I have replaced ceramic because of a flood, but it is true that it will happen less than wood or Lam.
Too many 1 sided opinions...but, that is why this site is good. Everyone can chime in and agree or agree to disagree.

HallisseyDesign · Dec 13, 2008

yep! I am installing next week in the addition for a g-rents a lot of hardwood! a border of quarter sawn oak at 7 inches wide then for the inlay it is african Rosewood at 5 inches! It is going through out except for the master bedroom and grams office. I will post up pics of the progress. :thumbup:

Floorwizard · Dec 13, 2008

Please do!

Home Work Pro · Dec 13, 2008

Have any of you tried the konecto products? I have been steering my customers to their products for a while now. No problems with water or mold, nice embossing to grain match and sooo easy to install.:thumbup:

perimeter caulk

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