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zthiessen

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am at a bit of a loss here... I am a cabinetmaker and will not pretend to know much about framing. I bought a house this summer that was built in 1905. I have done window and door work in houses in this area that were built like mine: interior walls being simply partitions with no cavities. Just 4/4 vertical planks nailed together. I know they are a pain to work on, but the price was right. I was looking online for information about how these houses are framed and I can find virtually NOTHING that is useful or illustrative.

From what I can tell it is just balloon framed box with four hip roofs, and an addition on front and back that were done in the 50's with stud walls.

As for the main house, can anybody here illuminate the role of the interior walls in this style of home? I am primarily confused by what exactly is happening around the staircase and how the second story floor system is held. The million dollar question for me - since I have never seen a building like this gutted - is do these plank walls even have top and bottom plates of some kind? Do you suppose the 2nd floor just spans wall to wall? The main, original house is 24'x34'. There is not space for any substantial framing in the wall around the entryway to the left of the bottom of the staircase to lead me to believe this wall is helping to hold it by much.

There are three images: View of dining room and the north wall. View facing south showing staircase and entryway into living room. View at the top of the stairs showing the plank wall.

Thanks for any insight!
 

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#2 ·
Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason for how some of these old homes were built.

The interior walls could indeed be structural.

A plate may be nailed flat on one side of the planks maybe both.

You must know a local Contractor or skilled Carpenter who could look first hand at your situation and give you some advice.

A guy on here, SevenDeltaFortyOne is from your neck of the woods, maybe he can help.

I'm a little north of you.
 
#3 ·
zthiessen said:
As for the main house, can anybody here illuminate the role of the interior walls in this style of home? I am primarily confused by what exactly is happening around the staircase and how the second story floor system is held. The million dollar question for me - since I have never seen a building like this gutted - is do these plank walls even have top and bottom plates of some kind? Do you suppose the 2nd floor just spans wall to wall? The main, original house is 24'x34'.
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The ones I've seen around here have top and bottom plates. Another way of doing them is to put them in vertical, then board the floor to keep them in place. Finding them on the top floor supporting the ridge is where I've seen them the most. They can be structural.

24' is not too long of a span to have continuous joists (I've seen it both ways), but even back then there would be center support.

Walk down through the structure determining what is structural and what isn't (just based on the layout), then go back over it for the construction details. I haven't found a way to not do careful homework on old houses.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Thanks to both of you for the info. In the image of the dining area, you can see a faint yellowed footprint of where the wall used to come down on that side. It is like its opposing counterpart, where upstairs its one side is the wall in the hallway and its other is the wall for the rooms.

You are most certainly correct hdavis: in the closet under the stairway, you can see where the vertical planks come down, although where they terminate is concealed with a perpendicular board. But I am guessing they rest on the subfloor and are secured by the flooring and the perpendicular trim board. So at their top, they must have some kind of top plate where they meet the ceiling joists. Just trying to grasp what the floor system situation is surrounding that staircase opening and how its anchored around - or interacts with - that 2 inch wall.

I am absolutely not asking this question with thoughts of tinkering further with any of these walls! If anything, I am wondering whether to put a wall back into the dining area. And I just want to more fully understand what I am dealing with here. I live in an extremely seismically prone area. The house is still here and the redwood looks like it came off the line yesterday. But fact is, just because it hasn't taken a dive yet doesn't mean it won't.. it's not getting any younger! I'd like to do my best to improve its integrity and safety for the future.

I am taking your advice and making drawings of what the framing for the house might look like, and this is the reason for the question. I have tenants living there currently and can't really investigate very simply this particular piece of the puzzle. So any kind of experience with this, links to articles or literature, anything at all is much appreciated!
 
#5 ·
zthiessen said:
So any kind of experience with this, links to articles or literature, anything at all is much appreciated!
Click to expand...
I don't think I've seen an article on it. From the pic, since the wall runs parallel to the stair run, it isn't likely to be supporting much. If the boards are continuous through the two floors and are nailed top, bottom, and at the second floor level (middle of the board), it adds a slot of shear strength.
 
#6 ·
What I think you are describing is called single wall construction. There should be a nominal or actual 2 x 4 single top plate on the exterior walls that the planks are nailed to. Then the bottom of the planks are nailed to the sole plate and perhaps a sill plate at the floor level. Originally the planks would also have battens on the seams.
The floor is probably framed with 2 x 6s or maybe 2 x 8s.
Now this is for the exterior walls, interior walls are anyone's guess.
Single wall construction is a pretty ****ty construction technique. Older than dirt but very cheap back in the day.
Windows and doors would be framed really weird. The framing nailed to the planking and maybe it goes to the sill/floor plate, maybe not.

Andy.
 
#7 ·
ScipioAfricanus said:
What I think you are describing is called single wall construction. There should be a nominal or actual 2 x 4 single top plate on the exterior walls that the planks are nailed to. Then the bottom of the planks are nailed to the sole plate and perhaps a sill plate at the floor level. Originally the planks would also have battens on the seams.
The floor is probably framed with 2 x 6s or maybe 2 x 8s.
Now this is for the exterior walls, interior walls are anyone's guess.
Single wall construction is a pretty ****ty construction technique. Older than dirt but very cheap back in the day.
Windows and doors would be framed really weird. The framing nailed to the planking and maybe it goes to the sill/floor plate, maybe not.

Andy.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, Andy. Up here, I only have seen the single wall (didn't know it was called that) on some interior walls, not on exterior. The OP seems to be in a region that, after doing some research on single wall, had whole houses constructed single wall. No doubt investigating his house construction is going to be interesting.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
ScipioAfricanus said:
What I think you are describing is called single wall construction. There should be a nominal or actual 2 x 4 single top plate on the exterior walls that the planks are nailed to. Then the bottom of the planks are nailed to the sole plate and perhaps a sill plate at the floor level. Originally the planks would also have battens on the seams.
The floor is probably framed with 2 x 6s or maybe 2 x 8s.
Now this is for the exterior walls, interior walls are anyone's guess.
Single wall construction is a pretty ****ty construction technique. Older than dirt but very cheap back in the day.
Windows and doors would be framed really weird. The framing nailed to the planking and maybe it goes to the sill/floor plate, maybe not.

Andy.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this!

I had a hunch that I was perhaps not finding anything because I hadn't used the correct term. A friend of mine called it "plank wall." I have read the same things... It is pretty much only seen where I live in the Pac. NW and in the NE, and even back then it was known to be an inferior and cheap method of building, "quick and dirty" back in the day for camp/worker housing.

Fortunately, my exterior walls are stud walls and the first floor system, roof system etc. is beefy and done fairly well and traditionally. Every one of these houses I've looked at is different... some are just flat-out flimsy and dangerous, some are as you described with extremely strange windows and door methodology :laughing: - some even had pulley and weight systems I had never seen before.

All of these answers are very helpful, and as griz and andy mention, there's not much rhyme or reason to any of these it would seem.
 
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hdavis
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