HVAC contractor quoted a Carrier furnace for new house under construction. When the furnace was installed I noticed it wasn't a Carrier, but was a Payne model. HVAC contractor says the Carrier furnace was on back order for a few weeks, so he installed the Payne (without my approval). Says it is the same furnace (Carrier owns Payne ?), just a different name on it. Is this true or is it a lower quality furnace ? What is the differences in quality, price, warranty ? Should I make him remove the Payne and install the Carrier unit ?
Quality of Payne furnace ???
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I agree that simply smearing a company for past mistakes doesn't represent the good engineers that finally solved the problems. Very often, smearing is done by someone who thinks they'll get more sales for their line, not realizing that when so many do the same, nobody trusts them. It's better to point out there were problems, they are solved and give the reasons for selling yours than to waste trust smearing others.
So if I was to say that Goodman is cheap crap that I wouldn't reccommend to anyone, that's a bad thing? I am not tied into any brand so I will install any piece of equipment a customer wants. If asked about a furnace I will say I wouldn't use a Goodman and I hate their condensing units as well.
owner/hvac
The Payne furnace is the same as the lower end Carrier units. The Payne models are not advertised and sold for a little less than the the Carrier name. Depending on which Carrier furnace that was originally quoted as there are several models and the price range can be significant. He should at least have offered you a small difference in pricing if he used the Payne I'm a Bryant/Carrier dealer (15 yrs) and sell several of the Payne models. I also sell several other brands. I like to stick to major name brands as they are the guys doing the development on new efficient products. A lot of the others are copycats. Just put a goodman on the side of a Carrier, Trane, Lennox or York and see the difference in quality of manufacture. At one time or another they have all had their share of problems but mostly with their vendors material. The majors will stand behind their products and make it right. Overall they are an excellent furnace and typically don't give any problems. When I quote a customer a price I include model numbers so they can look at it online and see exactly what they are getting. I have in the past ran into a model not available on time but I get my distributor to offer the next model up not down. I recently quoted a 15 seer system and when I placed the order it wasn't in stock except at the factory. My dist gave my customer a 17 seer at the same price. Sounds like he tried to save a few bucks. You'll probably catch heck getting him to change it unless you haven't paid him yet.:thumbsup:
The Payne furnace is the same as the lower end Carrier units. The Payne models are not advertised and sold for a little less than the the Carrier name. Depending on which Carrier furnace that was originally quoted as there are several models and the price range can be significant. He should at least have offered you a small difference in pricing if he used the Payne I'm a Bryant/Carrier dealer (15 yrs) and sell several of the Payne models. I also sell several other brands. I like to stick to major name brands as they are the guys doing the development on new efficient products. A lot of the others are copycats. Just put a goodman on the side of a Carrier, Trane, Lennox or York and see the difference in quality of manufacture. At one time or another they have all had their share of problems but mostly with their vendors material. The majors will stand behind their products and make it right. Overall they are an excellent furnace and typically don't give any problems. When I quote a customer a price I include model numbers so they can look at it online and see exactly what they are getting. I have in the past ran into a model not available on time but I get my distributor to offer the next model up not down. I recently quoted a 15 seer system and when I placed the order it wasn't in stock except at the factory. My dist gave my customer a 17 seer at the same price. Sounds like he tried to save a few bucks. You'll probably catch heck getting him to change it unless you haven't paid him yet.:thumbsup:
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If you really want the Carrier unit, you are entitled to it. However, if you simply want an appliance that will reliably heat and/or cool your house. The Payne unit is likely to do the job just as well. But you are entitled to either a price break or an extended warranty or something in your favor.
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Why the hate for goodman. The heat exchangers are the same tubular design that were used on amana no rivits to pop.. The fan motors are fine, as is the ignition system. What is most important is that the dealer back up the product they sell. Be it brand A, B,or C.
One flaw is on the 90+ downflow furnaces (goodman). The air intake is piped in a way that makes pulling the blower motor quite a task. But our supplier has no problem in making good with warranty issues. Heck, frequently the root of the problem is installer involved.
Unforturnately, the supply houses here don't have "demos" on their models. It would be nice to see what is the latest out there other than Amana, Goodman.
I like fords to.
I have a hotwater boiler. But when my heating plumbing air con man was out a month ago to clean my boiler install new coupler and install new pilot lite because i had a soft pilot lite now it is like little blow torch i asked him what forced air furnaces he installs he said armstrong or american standard. When he started shoveing the brush from bottom of the coils up alot of soot came out.:laughing: Not so much from top down.
Noridien Lenox York United tec. American Standard that's all there is and there aint no more.
well there is lux air
A box is a box higher a great contractor and let him put in what he installs; however, if he sells you a duck don't accept a chicken. Ducks are expensive.:laughing:
well there is lux air
A box is a box higher a great contractor and let him put in what he installs; however, if he sells you a duck don't accept a chicken. Ducks are expensive.:laughing:
Payne and carrier have about 95% the exact same parts, sit each of them side by side and they look identical. The basic 92% furnace, carrier will run you about 400$ more than the payne model. if i were you i would ask the contractor for the price difference. sounds like hes trying to pull a fast one on you.
As the majority has already said, Paynes are the low end of the carrier brands. They are good. I replaced a Payne condensor last summer that was at least 20 years old. Paynes do not cost as much as carrier units but that does not mean they are not good. Most all companies make a good unit (save Janitrol or Goodman or whatever they are today). It is the installer that makes the difference. Is it sized right? Are the ducts designed right? Is the return air coming from the places it needs to? There are a lot of things that can go wrong with a unit if it is not done right. The contractor is what one needs to be concerned about more than the brand. That said it sounds like the ethics of the contractor mentioned might be questionable.
BigJon is right. As long as a qualified professional who takes the time to do it right is there, you should have nothing to worry about no matter what is installed.
I pride myself on going the extra mile. I don't have any real service issues. Nobody can afford to do it twice.
However, I would certainly want a credit on the difference between Payne and Carrier. Though they may be part of the same company, the contractor paid less for your equipment. Why should you pay more for something you didn't bargain for. Get the difference in cost.
Your contractor should have been forthcoming and told you about this at the time of the installation. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth as far as feeling like he was trying to get one over on me.
I worked for another contractor who did the switcharoos out here. They sold a carrier air handler with hot water coils and had me install Coleman/Evcon. Yeah. Sure everything worked right (10 SEER)...but it WAS NOT HONEST BUSINESS. I knew that even though I had not been in business for myself. It was deceiving and they knew it. They had me take the nameplate off the Coleman unit before I installed it. They rooked the guy. Dealings like that only fortified the motion to go out on my own. I am on my own now for 7+ years and I would never do anything like that to anyone.
I pride myself on going the extra mile. I don't have any real service issues. Nobody can afford to do it twice.
However, I would certainly want a credit on the difference between Payne and Carrier. Though they may be part of the same company, the contractor paid less for your equipment. Why should you pay more for something you didn't bargain for. Get the difference in cost.
Your contractor should have been forthcoming and told you about this at the time of the installation. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth as far as feeling like he was trying to get one over on me.
I worked for another contractor who did the switcharoos out here. They sold a carrier air handler with hot water coils and had me install Coleman/Evcon. Yeah. Sure everything worked right (10 SEER)...but it WAS NOT HONEST BUSINESS. I knew that even though I had not been in business for myself. It was deceiving and they knew it. They had me take the nameplate off the Coleman unit before I installed it. They rooked the guy. Dealings like that only fortified the motion to go out on my own. I am on my own now for 7+ years and I would never do anything like that to anyone.
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We can not wait to take my moms Junky Payne unit out and put in a new 20 SEER American Standard heatpump. Only the best for my mama 
You guys are funny!
First of all United tech owns Carrier and Payne and etc. Carrier does not own Payne. And yes very similar in fact the same in many instances, and the cheapest Payne blows away a lot of the best the others have to offer!! Been a Carrier dealer for almost 40 years as well as a few others we have dropped due to quality. Some of you are talking about American standard??? im not sure why we are talking about toilets this is not a plumbing forum is it?? As far as heat exchanger lasting 5 years??? not sure how much gas pressure he's running or type of gas, Lifetime heat exchanger warranty with 20 years labour on part! best in the industry!! In my neck of the woods Payne and Carrier are the best, we are allways changing out Lax-aire, Badman, Janijunk, Cheaprite (U.T. product) etc etc etc. some in less than 5 years. and with Carriers current platform being almost 18 years old now, and all the ones weve installed that age are still rockin. To each there own on opinions and thats mine.
First of all United tech owns Carrier and Payne and etc. Carrier does not own Payne. And yes very similar in fact the same in many instances, and the cheapest Payne blows away a lot of the best the others have to offer!! Been a Carrier dealer for almost 40 years as well as a few others we have dropped due to quality. Some of you are talking about American standard??? im not sure why we are talking about toilets this is not a plumbing forum is it?? As far as heat exchanger lasting 5 years??? not sure how much gas pressure he's running or type of gas, Lifetime heat exchanger warranty with 20 years labour on part! best in the industry!! In my neck of the woods Payne and Carrier are the best, we are allways changing out Lax-aire, Badman, Janijunk, Cheaprite (U.T. product) etc etc etc. some in less than 5 years. and with Carriers current platform being almost 18 years old now, and all the ones weve installed that age are still rockin. To each there own on opinions and thats mine.
i agree that carrier and payne are alike perhaps in parts and quality, but YOU PAID for the carrier name! not for payne. would you pay for a lexus but dive off in a toyota? even though they are really the same in and of itself, its the prestige of the name brand that you are paying for. i agree with the above, sounds like you were done dirty. either have your payne unit priced and get the $$ difference back or have the carrier installed.
american standard owned and made trane for years as well as the american standard brand of hvac equip. american standard split up the company a few years ago and now it is called the trane company, which still makes american standard equipment. suppried you've been in the business for 40 years and have never heard of american standard.
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I agree totally with the above quote. I'm sure your bid was figured at Carrier pricing so why accept anything less.
I am currently debating if I should install a Payne or a Carrier Infinity ICS 80,000 in my own house. (There are other infinity lines). Since I am a contractor obviously I get prefered pricing on parts and I can do the work myself so repairs are not an issue. I am however trying to justify the extra cost for the Carrier. I have found out that the top of the line Payne unit is about 92% while the Carrier advertises 96% The Carrier also has better insulation in the cabinet and a better warranty. You can also connect their special $250.00 contoller ( thermostat with airflow and humidity options) Can somebody give me a reason to spend the extra $500.00 for the furnace and another $250.00 for the controller. In closing the contractor paid much less for the Payne, and Carrier furnaces are RARELY on back order. I dont think he will install a Carrier after the job has been done but good luck with that.
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Not being a big carrier fan I have heard good things about the infinity systems. THe whole thing is better comfort and lower cost of operation. If you want to spend less in the long run and be more comfortable at lower temperatures then I suggest you spend the extra money. I personally would take anything over payne. ICP products are a nice as well and compare closely to carrier without the infinity controls.
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Yes price
About $250 to $600 dollars in saving unit same !Unit was in stock if not could have receive in two buss. Days!
About $250 to $600 dollars in saving unit same !Unit was in stock if not could have receive in two buss. Days!
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