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Luongo64

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm not a framer in any way!! But I worked on this project when I was an apprentice where the framer insisted this is normal common practice. In the basement of this house, they extended an opening that walked through a living room to a kitchen. The floor above has the floor joists that are roughly 13 ft long (on either side to the next wall) lapping over top of this header. The framer built his own header to span the new opening. New opening is roughly 12 ft long. He took a bunch of 2x10's (8ft) and nailed them together to create his own beam. 2- 2x10's in the front, a 2x10 in the middle sandwiched and 2- 2x10's on the back. So there is not one full length of 2x10 spanning the opening.

I questioned him, saying i didnt think it was correct because all the structural integrity is on the nails holding the wood together. The weekest point is in the middle of the opening, and there is living space and floor joists that rest on that section of wall.

His response was that its allowed to be done, it just requires a certain amount of nails to be to code. Needless to say, that was many years ago. I recently ran into the same framer on another job, they still insist that what they did was correct. (Let it be known that I declined to work on this project seeing as that framer is also the GC).

SO.... can someone tell me, am I over reacting? Was this a common practice back in the day and not accepted anymore. I looked all over the internet, and from what i can find, people dont even mention splicing a header because you just dont do it. seems like its not even a question. Thoughts?? I asked another carpenter i worked with and he explained to me to imagine it this way. "imagine what would happen to the structure if all the nails were removed. thats how you can figure if something is generally built properly".
 
I asked another carpenter i worked with and he explained to me to imagine it this way. "imagine what would happen to the structure if all the nails were removed. thats how you can figure if something is generally built properly".



Image
 
Definitely not a good thing to do in my opinion. Just got off a job on an old house where the main beam support for the floor joists was a bunch of 2x10s sandwiched and nailed together. Some were high some were low. Overall a pretty piss poor beam.
 
As long as it's engineered, splices are fine...after all, lvl's, glulams and trusses are just one big engineered splice.

Unless the PE stamped the plan, your splice would be routinely bastardized by inspectors.

Rule of thumb is no flying splices, all must land on bearing walls or posts.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
As long as it's engineered, splices are fine...after all, lvl's, glulams and trusses are just one big engineered splice.

Unless the PE stamped the plan, your splice would be routinely bastardized by inspectors.

Rule of thumb is no flying splices, all must land on bearing walls or posts.
doubt it was engineered. everything on this job was decided on a whim.
Thats what was built. it was resting on 2- 2x6 back to back jack studs.
 

Attachments

Heard a term recently: cargo cult carpentry. Essentially, it's a reproduction of carpentry based on a mistaken image or misunderstanding of the principles involved.

Your guy is a hero to cargo cult carpenters the world over.


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I've seen it done a few times. My folks place that was built in '99 has a few dropped beams built this way.

I also did a basement frame project in December on a old house with the main beam built like this. I can't remember what the span was but there was a solid 1 1/2" sag in the middle.

I'd say it is the way they did things back then but I think you'd be hard pressed to find an inspector to pass a beam built like that today.
 
I've seen it done a few times. My folks place that was built in '99 has a few dropped beams built this way.

I also did a basement frame project in December on a old house with the main beam built like this. I can't remember what the span was but there was a solid 1 1/2" sag in the middle.

I'd say it is the way they did things back then but I think you'd be hard pressed to find an inspector to pass a beam built like that today.

In school they taught us about 1/4 points, a splice could land within 10% of a 1/4 of the span between bearing points and couldn't line up between plys. Obviously this doesn't work in a single opening in any way at all though.


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The way they did it there is no redundancy. What if the center ply fails where there is the most stress (right at the center). The whole thing comes down. If they had offset splices on all three plys, it would be a little better.

I hope there's not a knot right at the center.
 
so a splice could land within 10.6 inches of a post (12ft/4=3ftx10%=0.3x36"=10.8"?) in this scenario as long as the plies dont line up?
No, only on a built up beam spanning over several posts. It's also not allowed to splice the 1/4 point on the end of beams. A header should always be made of full length plies, unless you've mastered the Japanese joinery that digi posted :thumbup:
 
I hate to see splices in load members.

Its bad framing to not ask the builder to have the proper material (length and type) sent out to the job. 3 longer boards are what, $25 each?

And the framer just spent more time, nails and glue to hack-in-stein a "git-r-done" fix.

Just my 2 cents
 
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