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Crown backing

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kevbo

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Does every one go as far as to provide backing strips when installing crown to a ceiling where there's no backing. I know in all the production and custom homes I've done..(in the past...IN THE PAST!), and every one else that does crown, do not go that far and it's not even requested or expected by the builder, client or subs I've worked for...when it's obvious that if the truss is running perp theres no backing. In fact I have never heard of any one going that far for this situation. Now that I'm out on my own and have seen crown pull away from a ceiling after a couple of years go by where there was no backing for a install(and no...the caulking did not shrink that much!), I'm thinking of providing backing strips for all my crown installs to cover my butt down the road, and in case I get a client who asks..."What are you nailing to??" Waste of time??

Who uses a brad nailer w/ 1 1/2"s for base and say 5 1/4" crown...instead of a finish nailer?
 
#2 ·
The only time I use a backer is for installation over metal framing.

If you are using 1 1/2" brads for 5 1/4" crown, I'm surprised it stays on the wall long enough for the painters, much less having a problem with it a couple of years later. I use a 16 ga finish nailer with either 2 or 2 1/2" nails.
 
#3 ·
I always use a backing strip. It makes life so much easier for me. Especially if the ceiling/wall is a little wonky, it makes fiddling with the crown simpler. You can nail the crown right in the meaty middle too.

The hardest part is ripping the 2 x 4s. I wish I could find a lumber yard that carried angled strips.
 
#4 · (Edited)
To be honest, most of the time I don't use a backer. I carry a stud finder and land as many nails into the wall as I can and toe-nail the rest into the ceiling, and glue all the corners, and so far I've had no problems. I use 2" 15g nails for crown, and 1 1/2"-2" 15g nails for base.

Next time I get a big crown job, I'm considering using a backer, if the builder is willing to pay extra... I'm not real busy so I don't mind the extra work and if I can charge more per foot then why not? Plus like you said it covers your ass down the road.

Edit: Sorry I meant 15 ga finish nails not 18ga
 
#6 ·
um 2 1/2" 16ga finish nails. if you can, hit the joists. if not then I take and fire two nails toed against each other. kinda like an x. never had a call back for the crown pulling away. I make sure I'm hitting studs on the wall side and cross those into the stud too.

Alex
 
#7 ·
we also criss cross nails at top and nail str8 into topplate. never had a problem in 10 yrs. if it needs to be pulled up i hand drive finish nails into the topplate. we use 2 1/2 16g nails for everything. pinnail corners together.if installing 4" crown you can nail in the middle of crown str8 into top plate.
 
#10 ·
I use a backer on all of it. I also see all of the hacks working new const. where the caulk is 90% of the holding power.
 
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#11 ·
I use backer on everything over 3&1/2 inches. I always use backer at a joint for 2&1/2 and over crown. I fasten a lot of crown with 2 inch brads and use 2&1/2 inch nails for the larger stuff. Never had a problem, I do try to hit the studs or ceiling joists.
 
#12 ·
so everyone that doesnt use backers are hacks. so i got a question for all the i'm better than you, never done anything wrong trim carpenters,"would you spend a day or two ripping down backing, cutting and installing crown for 7$ a corner when the GC or customer doesnt see a need for it and is not going to pay extra for it?"
 
#13 ·
Depending on the size and material, it really doesn't NEED many nails. But the ones you do use, be sure and know where they land. Its not structural, and the caulk helping it adhere is hardly a bad thing. The less nail holes that have to be filled, the better for everyone.

JMO

I have no problem being liable for how I do it.
 
#14 ·
I only do 4" or bigger crown. Anywhere the top edge can't nail into something behind the drywall, we use backing. Mainly on walls falling parallel to the rafters/trusses. It's cheap insurance. 16ga 2 1/2" nailer almost everywhere, pin nailer and yellow glue on the outside corners. Paslode trim nailer in odd spots.
 
#15 ·
mmike032 said:
so everyone that doesnt use backers are hacks. so i got a question for all the i'm better than you, never done anything wrong trim carpenters,"would you spend a day or two ripping down backing, cutting and installing crown for 7$ a corner when the GC or customer doesnt see a need for it and is not going to pay extra for it?"
Click to expand...
Not nessasarly, but it is the proven method of what works the best with less of a chance on call backs for lose molding. Although ecomonics may play a role it would only be an extreamly small one. Since there are only two walls in a room that would need build up it would only add an hour or so and if someone don't want to pay for it then they sign a waiver voiding any warranty.
I understand some builders don't give a **** and they leave you no choice.

Can we install crown 5 different ways ? Sure, but i'll chose the right way.
 
#16 ·
all i'm saying is there is at least 10 different ways to do anything.just b/c you do something different then the next guy doesnt make you a hack, as long as the finished product doesnt suffer. many builders dont give a shat, but i do. however i will not lose money by investing time in something that is overkill. now if i did have a problem with callbacks than i would change something in order not to lose money on callbacks. so far no callbacks on crown except an occasional joint that needs to be sanded. you cant hold all your helpers hands all day long
 
#17 ·
I may not have been the biz for as long as some of you, but it's been a while, and I've run more than my fair share of crown...

The only callback I've ever had for crown was when I had some corners separate, since then I glue all my corners, base, crown, casing, whatever... but I've never seen it come down from walls or ceilings. Not once. Not to say it can't happen, but I feel pretty confident in the way I install it.
 
#18 ·
Wavy ceiling on the side that could use build up ? let me see shooting nails in the drywall to hold the crown up tight, and not caulking a huge gap when you're done.
 
#19 ·
Teetorbilt said:
I use a backer on all of it. I also see all of the hacks working new const. where the caulk is 90% of the holding power.
Click to expand...
Then the shrinking and expanding factor may come in to play, as long as they can get a check and get to the bank before it loosens up ,its all good.
 
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