Second & 3rd story deck ?

Jimbo2015 · May 9, 2015

Hi getting plans together for two decks, the first level deck will be 10' above ground level. The size is 10' x 20'
Access will be off the second floor game room.

however the home will be built with SIPS (structural insulated panels) so there are no beams or sill plates etc to tie into in the walls.

I can mount a 2by ledger on the exterior and 3/4 ply on the interior to tie the ledger in.

I was planning on using 6x6 posts on concrete piers, so this level would have 10' tall posts.

next directly above this deck a 3rd level is planned 10'x10'
Same ledger system

Not sure how to construct the posts for the3rd level

one option I was thinking of was use 8x8 post 18' tall, notch in the 2nd floor beams and mount the 3rd level beams on top of that post.

I read something about a 14' max height on posts????

Second idea, mount a 6x6 x 8' post directly on the second level deck etc.

I hope I explained the plan enough.

John Hyatt · May 10, 2015

Your trade is solar, taking on a project like that.

Interesting.

John www.deckmastersllc.com

Keeyter · May 10, 2015

You're playing chess with checkers - I didn't put much into thinking about your post but I have one word that is a 100% fail safe option for decks. Freestanding

SelectDecks · May 10, 2015

A couple points - with sips just use concrete anchors to attach your ledger, not sure what you're talking about with 3/4" ply though

Also your notch idea will work, done it many times on decks that require 6x6 over 16' tall. Just hide it behind the rim joist and it looks like a continuous post.

I think I would stay away from mounting the 3rd story deck posts on the 2nd story deck. Even if you place them directly above the 2nd story posts some of that load won't transfer to the footings like you want. It's ok for roofs at like 20psf, decks no good at 50psf.

Good luck

EthanB · May 10, 2015

SelectDecks said:
A couple points - with sips just use concrete anchors to attach your ledger, not sure what you're talking about with 3/4" ply though

Are you getting SIP mixed up with ICF?

SelectDecks · May 10, 2015

Probably, I'm tired tonight

SelectDecks · May 10, 2015

I don't even think anchors would work with icf would they, because of that insulation layer. I was referring to solid concrete walls - we get that a lot with basements round here.

I agree with guy earlier, freestanding is the way to go

RobertCDF · May 10, 2015

Just get an engineer to design it and you're golden.
I've stacked posts, I've done continuous, whatever works.

Jimbo2015 · May 10, 2015

EthanB said:
Are you getting SIP mixed up with ICF?

No it's a sips construction build.

SelectDecks said:
A couple points - with sips just use concrete anchors to attach your ledger, not sure what you're talking about with 3/4" ply though

A 2X10 is mounted on the exterior as a ledge board, but it can't be screwed into just 7/16" outer skin of the sip panel, so what was suggested by the manufacturer was to mount a 2x10 by 3/4" plywood ledger on the interior skin and thru bolt them.
I think they suggested 3/4" for appearance sake on the interior, 1/4" metal would work just as well either one is preventing pull thru of the bolt heads

Also your notch idea will work, done it many times on decks that require 6x6 over 16' tall. Just hide it behind the rim joist and it looks like a continuous post.

I thought the new code limits the post to 14'

If that is in fact correct and I need a overall 18' or so, I was considering a 4' tall concrete pier.

Also there's concern of the PT timber twisting.

I was thinking about using 6"x9" post (I can have them milled any size) cut in 3" for the beams of the first level leaving a 6x6 continuous post to the second level.

But I would prefer to use FL cypress for the posts & decking, PT just for exterior ledger board.

I've build a few large pergolas with cypress and they hold up great.
Mounted a of solar panels on them, when the roof of the house didn't work out.

In fact I've butted them together to make a water tight roof.....but that's getting off topic.

Jimbo2015 · May 10, 2015

SelectDecks said:
freestanding is the way to go

How are going to spec the posts and brace it at this height?

I would think the attached ledger system would be more stable?

Please explain.

Deckhead · May 10, 2015

Jimbo2015 said:
Also there's concern of the PT timber twisting.

I was thinking about using 6"x9" post (I can have them milled any size) cut in 3" for the beams of the first level leaving a 6x6 continuous post to the second level.

But I would prefer to use FL cypress for the posts & decking, PT just for exterior ledger board.

If you can have the timbers milled any size I assume they are green. Green cypress as post would equal just as much if not more twist than pt.

Sure it can be dried but good luck on the time. Someone really has to know what their doing to dry cypress that big. I have some 6x6 rs that has been in the shop for about a year and its still over 19%.

Never heard of the 14' deal.

Strip footings, 2 #5 continuous rebar with a 3x3 (2x2 probably enough) cage where the posts go. Free stand the deck so it doesn't rely on the sips panel for staying put. I would use concealed hangers for beams instead of notching. Make the deck its own structure.

RobertCDF · May 10, 2015

Free standing a deck that height will look like crap. Get an engineer for the ledger connection. Btw, the posts in this situation are not the same as 18' tall posts, you have bracing at mid span (the other deck).

The Coastal Craftsman · May 10, 2015

The 3/4 board the back side of the sips is how they are done around here. Not at all common to use them in this area though but neighborhood across the street all of the houses have them.

I have never done one my self though as I don't do new build decks. They always laugh when I quote them so gave up.

Keeyter · May 10, 2015

Jimbo2015 said:
How are going to spec the posts and brace it at this height?

I would think the attached ledger system would be more stable?

Please explain.

Can't have a ledger on all four sides - so how would you brace the sides that don't have a ledger and you answered your own question.

hdavis · May 10, 2015

Jimbo2015 said:
Also there's concern of the PT timber twisting.

The key here is choosing the right posts if they're going to be green, then get them up and the structure built fast, before it has much drying time.

Or just use KD if you can get them.

Dan_Watson · May 10, 2015

My obligatory salesman answer is just use steel. It is obviously the answer to everything.

For the posts I would use Parallams, which would be well within their limits on that deck. Beam connections get a little more tricky but can be done. All that is needed is a little leg work, creativity and a good arch/engineer.

There are a few members here that have done some killer high decks. They have a few threads and articles that you should read for some guidance as well.

PS Be very thankful for all the help you have gotten so far. these threads are usually shut down very quickly. Everyone is being very nice for some reason...

Deckhead · May 10, 2015

Dan_Watson said:
My obligatory salesman answer is just use steel. It is obviously the answer to everything.

For the posts I would use Parallams, which would be well within their limits on that deck. Beam connections get a little more tricky but can be done. All that is needed is a little leg work, creativity and a good arch/engineer.

There are a few members here that have done some killer high decks. They have a few threads and articles that you should read for some guidance as well.

PS Be very thankful for all the help you have gotten so far. these threads are usually shut down very quickly. Everyone is being very nice for some reason...

He's in Florida. Depending on where, steel would be a horrible decision.

Totally agree with the parallam posts. Concealed flange hangers, fur and wrap to make nice.

The nice thing must be because its mothers day and all of us are in nice mode for our wives. Dont get used to it OP.

Dan_Watson · May 10, 2015

I should have read his location....

CarpenterSFO · May 10, 2015

If this is new construction, why is the structural design for a multi-story deck being left to the solar guy, to improvise? An SIP building might have a conventionally framed floor assembly; do you have construction drawings? This picture doesn't make sense to me.

Is this construction being done legally?

Jimbo2015 · May 10, 2015

CarpenterSFO said:
If this is new construction, why is the structural design for a multi-story deck being left to the solar guy, to improvise? An SIP building might have a conventionally framed floor assembly; do you have construction drawings? This picture doesn't make sense to me.

Is this construction being done legally?

Yes it will having building permit, the second floor is not conventional, there are NO 2 by's in the walls except the corners, bottom sills & top plates.
It is a passive solar design minimizing thermal bridging.

I have at the moment preliminary plans drafted, hopefully with some input from you guys I can have the next set of drawing updated.

The pdf's are too large to upload unfortunately.

Second & 3rd story deck ?

Jimbo2015

John Hyatt

Keeyter

SelectDecks

EthanB

SelectDecks

SelectDecks

RobertCDF

Jimbo2015

Jimbo2015

Deckhead

RobertCDF

The Coastal Craftsman

Keeyter

hdavis

Dan_Watson

Deckhead

Dan_Watson

CarpenterSFO

Jimbo2015

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