Floordude - There is no doubt you make valid points. I can definitely appreciate your business attitude to help better the trade for the installers involved but you jump to the far extreme.
Have I really. Exposing the other side of the fence, and figuring out how wages are surpressed from the cost of living increase, is extreme, but you have to start somewhere, why not the top.
There is no salex tax on services. There is only sales tax on product.
Uhhh, if your a retailer, selling an installed product to a customer, the States Comptroller, is going to want to see the tax, because your resaling someone elses services or you have employees. If your an installer selling labor only, you do not pay resale tax, because you didn't sell anything you purchased. Although, there are some states that require sales tax on labor.
The real world we live in is more like what angus is talking about. Commercial jobs are definitely usually lower paying per sq ft. More common wide open spaces, no customers breathing down your neck, dont have to worry much about paint dings/chips, jobs are usually ready to go (no furn or rip out) are all a bunch of reasons why its OK to go lower per sq ft. Yes its just as hard to install the 1st piece as it is the last but its not just as fast setting up 1 big job as it is setting up 3 small ones. Most of the time my prices stay constant regardless res/com but i will discount for large volume. I mean if you charge by the sq ft and you do hallways, kitchens, and bathrooms all day your not making much money as opposed to installing a bonus room regardless of what flooring selected. I bet you going to say you charge more for "cut up" areas but what do you justiy it as... there are more cuts so i charge more? So charge by how many cuts you do ? How long it takes? Then your an employee basically, getting paid by the hour not the job.
I certainly don't have a one price fits all, pricing structure. All jobs are different and are priced accordingly, to pay my wage, and make a profit for the company, not just beer money either.
I like to avg 100-200 an hr.
That's is the exact numbers I need to stay in business and keep the doors open.
So i install efficient. Imagine me giving a bill to a homeowner for $100 an hour for floor installation.
Why would you do that?? You have a contract, they have no idea what it cost you, or how long it is going to take you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure you were there 3 hours and the contract was for $900, either way, if they feel they they got ripped off, your in the wrong market!!! Your bottom feeding, because they got competitive bids. You have to surpass their expectations, and perform flawless work, pretty much educating them the whole way. Never itemized a proposal!!!
If you charge $550 for 100 yrd carpet basic install and finish it in 4 hours = 137.50 an hr! Try billing your customer that on an invoice prior to commencing install. You will NOT get the job.
Say that again, you may have it phrased wrong??? Iv'e read it 4 times, and can't figure how your billing before you start a job.. It is called contracting, not billing. Your proposal doesn't say $XX and it will only take us 4 hours, LOL I know you had to be thinking something else and it got typed wrong. You can't be serious.:no:
Another point.... concerning volume vs. high profit margin. Think about 2 retailers.... One can sell high end product with high profit margins. One sells everyday product with smaller profit margins. Which one appeals to a mass market?
Uhh, you have your pole baited with the wrong bait, I'm not fishing for the masses, I want the king tuna, the sailfish, or Tarpin. Minnows get thrown back!!!!!!!!! :w00t:
My customer thinks they got a great deal with great service. Your customer thinks your service was great, the price was a bit high, but at least it went well and it looks great. My customer is siked, yours is content. Mine will have a tendency to repeat and tell others, yours will have a tendency to shop around next time.
How do you come to this conclusion, all my business is referral and I'm high dollar. Clients wait months at a time for my schedule to clear. Sure I have a couple of ads in the phonebook, but those are the "how much do you charge" waste my time people. Meeting a customers expectations, and exceeding them, adds more to value, then price.
Think about it... I will take fair prices and volume anyday or high prices and here and there work. While pre-madonna installers are waiting for the golden install, i just banged out 5.
LOL, I use to think like that, too. It took small business classes to see the light! Ya, I was stupid and uneducated about business.
You can have the 5 jobs a week. It keeps you in shape. But I made 5 times what you did all week, and worked half as hard. Work smarter not harder!!! Like I said before, work 2 weeks straight, on one job, and pull more then I made in 3 months, as a retail slave, that has work everyday. Sure you have to work everyday to make ends meet. I have time for my family, and to start other profitable businesses, that I also enjoy doing.
Oh and floordude... dont take my comments about "fast", "banged out", etc out of context as being a hack. No matter how fast you are you wont be in business long if your qaulity is poor. I treat my business as a business. And that goal = to make as much money as possible while making my customers as satisfied as possible.
I understand totally. I was there early in my installation career. I always did the job good enough to get paid. Never have had a callback in all my installation career. Not one, that was the fault of mine. Thank god for failure investigation training, when they tried to pin it on me, as the installer is always the lowest on the totem pole. You know that employee with all the liability. I learned fast to cover your pucker hole!!!
As any business i look at the numbers.
One more analogy... Think about target, walmart, bestbuy, gap, depot, lowes etc. These are MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR players in the retail/service market.
Service??? Not one of them have service. Not even HD or blue. Service?? Hahahaha. That is what HD and Lowes lacks... Service. The others are retail sales, period. No service, unless it is can I help you maam.
They make ALL of their money off volume, not large margin profit sales. Every major retail and service company does.
I make money off volume too, the more I do the more I make. But you can only do so much in a day, providing labor, so that is an apples and oranges anology.
One more anology.. its funny how when purchasing flooring 99% of the time you receive a discount from every manftr and supplier by ordering more quantity. While its just as hard to sell the first one as it is the last one... volume = discount. Life fact that should remain.
Your talking product with a mark up, not labor where you have to make a living and consistent profit.
I am all about offering a great product for a great price while having great service. That is a practical business model. Yours is not.
I add value to the service I provide. I am not a commodity. You fish for much different fish then I do. I won't eat a carp, I throw them back, or make cutbait from them.
Obviously there are two sides to the fence. It all depends who wants to bust the fence down, first.
