Here's a cool old slate roof that I'm gonna restore. She's pretty original and has had some crappy repairs over the years. The house was built in 1851... that's only 10 years after Melbourne itself was founded. If I'm not mistaken before the American Civil War even. Should be real interesting to see whats under the roof and the construction etc..
Here's a cool old slate roof
spinsy
41 - 60 of 102 Posts
that is super cool spinsey. I haven't ever seen a slate roof strapped over solid decking like that.
there are a couple variations of French tile I run into that are strapped like than-and then maybe only every other course is nailed--- the rest just hang on lugs.
A few only the bottom and top course are nailed and all the rest are hanging on lugs. ( really speeds up repairs LOL.)
personally--- I haven't been on a lot of slate roofs where the roof was that big----we are mostly residential
for a slate roof--- the Tudor revival style would be the dominate style----and a common feature would be a graduated slate roof.
BIG ,THICK ones at the bottom, and then the courses will bet progressively smallet and thinner up the roof.
Some of the bottom slates will be 1-1/2 inches to 2 inches thick. the biggest slates I encounter are 14x24, 12x24 and 12x22.
we call them barn slates.--- I buy them new, or as salvage--- and then I can cut them down into smaller slates as needed. Many of the Tudor roofs are also random---so the widths will be a mixture of 5,6,8,10's across the roof with a few 12 and 14's thrown in.. Height of the slate is usually 14,16,18 high. It's pretty labor intensive when we are working with widths 5,6,8,10's etc.--- and trying to maintain at least a 3" off set with the courses above and below.
also--- most Of what I buy is Vermont Grey green---- but we use a lot of purple also------------ a lot of the better Tudors will be a mix of green and purple slates, about 60/40--- clear green and clear purple---- occasionally we find some mottled green/purple in the same slates........
I will try to get you some pictures of what we are usually working on.
Stephen
there are a couple variations of French tile I run into that are strapped like than-and then maybe only every other course is nailed--- the rest just hang on lugs.
A few only the bottom and top course are nailed and all the rest are hanging on lugs. ( really speeds up repairs LOL.)
personally--- I haven't been on a lot of slate roofs where the roof was that big----we are mostly residential
for a slate roof--- the Tudor revival style would be the dominate style----and a common feature would be a graduated slate roof.
BIG ,THICK ones at the bottom, and then the courses will bet progressively smallet and thinner up the roof.
Some of the bottom slates will be 1-1/2 inches to 2 inches thick. the biggest slates I encounter are 14x24, 12x24 and 12x22.
we call them barn slates.--- I buy them new, or as salvage--- and then I can cut them down into smaller slates as needed. Many of the Tudor roofs are also random---so the widths will be a mixture of 5,6,8,10's across the roof with a few 12 and 14's thrown in.. Height of the slate is usually 14,16,18 high. It's pretty labor intensive when we are working with widths 5,6,8,10's etc.--- and trying to maintain at least a 3" off set with the courses above and below.
also--- most Of what I buy is Vermont Grey green---- but we use a lot of purple also------------ a lot of the better Tudors will be a mix of green and purple slates, about 60/40--- clear green and clear purple---- occasionally we find some mottled green/purple in the same slates........
I will try to get you some pictures of what we are usually working on.
Stephen
Good pics and work Stephen, The roofing there is very different than here. The tudor revival style home began around the 1930's here but it wasn't really that popular and hence was gone by ... I'm guesstamating here mid 30's. This time period was when the slate roofs were virtually finished in Melbourne and the Marseille style tiles were always used. A common feature of the very few Tudor homes here was that nearly all had a roof style and color called fade aways. The tiles were always what we call semi glazed [ you may call semi ceramic I think ] and how the fade away works is darker tiles are laid to the bottom and as you lay in the roof the higher you go up the lighter color you lay in till the the top is the lightest ones. So the typical color on those Tudors is brown and it fades to a light brown at the top. Does it look any good ? not really. I've got a pic of an old fadeaway I did years ago... i'll see if I can find it.
Quick rundown for you.. so you don't get confused and I don't confuse myself. This is just general... no real specific dates and they all just kind of morphed into different types of roofing. This is just from what I can gather and piece together from the roofs I've been on.
Melbourne....* before permanent settlement--- wattyl and bark roof
*1840's permanent settlement began slate and corry
iron roofs. Early Victorian style homes. The slate
always Welsh.
* Moving on thru 50's 60's 70s Lots of slate..different
types of Welsh and some English. Corry on cheap
construction like workers cottages etc.,
* 80's 90's Fabulous wealth for many on the goldfields.
building boom period. Slate imported from all over
world.. Welsh, English,continentals and even what
we call yankee blues..which I think is your
Pensylvania ribbon slate ? Somewhere toward the
end of the 90's the first marseille style tiles were
imported from France. Only a couple of different
types I've seen and worked on but maybe there was
a couple others. These tiles had lots of French
writing on the underside which is interesting but on
front at the widest part of the water spreader and
done in raised terracotta was pictures of turtles,
bumblebees and I have seen a eagle.
* 1901 Australia declared a federation. Federation
style homes and everyone goes mad for building
materials that feature Australiana. The Marseille
style tiles are made here and have as the little
pictures kangaroos, waratah flowers, emus
kookaburras etc. Mainly slate roofs still though.
* 1905 ish Early Edwardian style homes get going
Australiana dies off, Marseille style tiles get plainer and lose the symbols. Continental type slate [very soft now and we reroof many these days ] is more the chosen type slate less Welsh now. * Into the 10's 15's Marseille tiles gaining popularity common to see slate tiles with terracotta tile finishes. Into the 20's slate losing ground to the tiles and by mid to late 20's tiles taken over and slate virtually finished. * From 30's lots of tile makers and styles similar to what we have kind of today.
I could go on and on and on how roofs in Melbourne evolved up to present but I would probably bore the crap outta you. Nearly all the work I do these days is from that pre 30's era.
Those Australiana and original French tiles are pretty rare these days but I still got some hanging around if you want a few pics i'll get em
Quick rundown for you.. so you don't get confused and I don't confuse myself. This is just general... no real specific dates and they all just kind of morphed into different types of roofing. This is just from what I can gather and piece together from the roofs I've been on.
Melbourne....* before permanent settlement--- wattyl and bark roof
*1840's permanent settlement began slate and corry
iron roofs. Early Victorian style homes. The slate
always Welsh.
* Moving on thru 50's 60's 70s Lots of slate..different
types of Welsh and some English. Corry on cheap
construction like workers cottages etc.,
* 80's 90's Fabulous wealth for many on the goldfields.
building boom period. Slate imported from all over
world.. Welsh, English,continentals and even what
we call yankee blues..which I think is your
Pensylvania ribbon slate ? Somewhere toward the
end of the 90's the first marseille style tiles were
imported from France. Only a couple of different
types I've seen and worked on but maybe there was
a couple others. These tiles had lots of French
writing on the underside which is interesting but on
front at the widest part of the water spreader and
done in raised terracotta was pictures of turtles,
bumblebees and I have seen a eagle.
* 1901 Australia declared a federation. Federation
style homes and everyone goes mad for building
materials that feature Australiana. The Marseille
style tiles are made here and have as the little
pictures kangaroos, waratah flowers, emus
kookaburras etc. Mainly slate roofs still though.
* 1905 ish Early Edwardian style homes get going
Australiana dies off, Marseille style tiles get plainer and lose the symbols. Continental type slate [very soft now and we reroof many these days ] is more the chosen type slate less Welsh now. * Into the 10's 15's Marseille tiles gaining popularity common to see slate tiles with terracotta tile finishes. Into the 20's slate losing ground to the tiles and by mid to late 20's tiles taken over and slate virtually finished. * From 30's lots of tile makers and styles similar to what we have kind of today.
I could go on and on and on how roofs in Melbourne evolved up to present but I would probably bore the crap outta you. Nearly all the work I do these days is from that pre 30's era.
Those Australiana and original French tiles are pretty rare these days but I still got some hanging around if you want a few pics i'll get em
Interesting about mixing the slate colors, that,s something that would never be done here and never has been as far as i can tell. It would probably look OK on some style of homes though but it just doesn't get done here don't know why.
Joined
·
7,591 Posts
Anyone else find that they are staring at slate/tile roofs whenever driving around now? Great thread
That type of slating you put on the tudor homes is what I know as Westmoreland slating. Technically this term is wrong as there are normal size westmoreland slate roofs here [ not really common but some ] . But the graduated and random width slates nearly always came from the Kirkstone quarries in Westmoreland so it was commonly referred to as Westmoreland slating I was told by the old guy. We pulled one off a few years ago [ shame really cause the slates were good.. just needed restoration ] and put your new 20x12 Vermont greens on it cause they were similar color. From memory and I can't remember exactly the slates were 24" for about six courses then 22's then 20''s all the way up to these tiny little ones in the top courses.. all random widths of course. The job was an old government building and about 4 story high so we didn't even save any of the slates and you couldn't tell em the old slates were ok they just wont listen. Don't know why I didnt get any pics of that job. I probably wasnt thinking straight cause just after we started I had to get a hip replacement and when I come back near the end of it, the doctors wouldnt let me go up on a roof so I had to stay on the ground and grade the slates and load the elevator.
Joined
·
7,591 Posts
My grandfather did a little bit of slate and was a tin knocker (copper) so love this stuff. He passed away before I could learn enough too much of the trade
Stephen..... here's how the Marseille tiles are secured here.. I'll go back and start at the very first imported french tiles.
I'm gunna talk imperial here and I did use this when I started but i've converted somewhere along the way to metric so I gotta think a bit.
The timberwork for these tile roofs was 5x one and half inch hardwood rafters spaced at 18 inches apart. Never any boarding on top- never is, very rare on any type of roof here. The tile battens [ now I think you call these straps ] are attached directly to the rafters and are hardwood also.Their size is 1 and a half inches x 1 inch they are spaced at.. depending on the particular batch of tile they could vary a bit ...somewhere between 13 inches to 13 and three quarter inches apart. The measurement needs to be very accurate as there is not a lot of room for error with these old tiles if you don't know what they go on at. In between these battens there is tie battens. So you have the tile battens on at say 13 and half inches for example. you measure up 7 and half inches from the top edge of the tile batten below [ it can vary depends on the tile again and where the tie hole is located on that type of tile ] you nail on whats called a tie batten that is also hardwood and it is 3 quarters of inch x 3 quarters of inch. The underside of these old tiles has whats called a tie hole molded into it and the tie batten should finish up directly under the tie hole. These old tiles still have lugs so you just lay in the roof hooking the lugs over the top edge of the tile battens with no fixings at all. Sorry guys I keep changing here I think between how it was done and I how I do it. but I think you'll get what I'm saying. So the roofs laid in and you/they get in under the tiles and start tying off. On these old original French tile roofs the wire you find is copper and a real thick gauge. The wire is fed in through the tile hole and looped up around the tie batten sitting directly above it pulled tight and the ends twisted together. There's a certain way this is done but i dunno how to describe it. These roofs every tile was wired like this and you actually have to lay on your back to do the very bottom courses. As far as fixing it is unbelievable how strong it is even to this day on the odd chance you come across them. You really have to get in the roof and cut the wires to get em off. If you try to wrench them off like you can with the later tying system, you just keep breaking them.
I'll tell you about how the wiring system evolved a bit later all the way up to where it eventually dissapeared.
This is how the very fist true imported Marseille tiles were installed in Melbourne for the short period they were used here
I'm gunna talk imperial here and I did use this when I started but i've converted somewhere along the way to metric so I gotta think a bit.
The timberwork for these tile roofs was 5x one and half inch hardwood rafters spaced at 18 inches apart. Never any boarding on top- never is, very rare on any type of roof here. The tile battens [ now I think you call these straps ] are attached directly to the rafters and are hardwood also.Their size is 1 and a half inches x 1 inch they are spaced at.. depending on the particular batch of tile they could vary a bit ...somewhere between 13 inches to 13 and three quarter inches apart. The measurement needs to be very accurate as there is not a lot of room for error with these old tiles if you don't know what they go on at. In between these battens there is tie battens. So you have the tile battens on at say 13 and half inches for example. you measure up 7 and half inches from the top edge of the tile batten below [ it can vary depends on the tile again and where the tie hole is located on that type of tile ] you nail on whats called a tie batten that is also hardwood and it is 3 quarters of inch x 3 quarters of inch. The underside of these old tiles has whats called a tie hole molded into it and the tie batten should finish up directly under the tie hole. These old tiles still have lugs so you just lay in the roof hooking the lugs over the top edge of the tile battens with no fixings at all. Sorry guys I keep changing here I think between how it was done and I how I do it. but I think you'll get what I'm saying. So the roofs laid in and you/they get in under the tiles and start tying off. On these old original French tile roofs the wire you find is copper and a real thick gauge. The wire is fed in through the tile hole and looped up around the tie batten sitting directly above it pulled tight and the ends twisted together. There's a certain way this is done but i dunno how to describe it. These roofs every tile was wired like this and you actually have to lay on your back to do the very bottom courses. As far as fixing it is unbelievable how strong it is even to this day on the odd chance you come across them. You really have to get in the roof and cut the wires to get em off. If you try to wrench them off like you can with the later tying system, you just keep breaking them.
I'll tell you about how the wiring system evolved a bit later all the way up to where it eventually dissapeared.
This is how the very fist true imported Marseille tiles were installed in Melbourne for the short period they were used here
Couple pics. The shells a real french gryphon and the ball and stick finials original French too. Pretty rare here. The reverse apex one is so rare in fact it's useless... never be needed. If you wanna see something specific let me know. I got samples of most of those things I think.
Attachments
Not a good example but look close you'll see a emu on the water spreader.. I'll get some beter pics of the Australiana tiles and the French ones. I dropped the horn finial in front of the picket ridge and broke the top off.
Attachments
41 - 60 of 102 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
