Occasionally I run into situations where a client wants me to perform high end work in a low end house. I'm not talking about restoring some historical building, I'm talking about these rotten termite traps that are just not worth repairing. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a client that their house is not worth repairing without offending anyone?
How to nicely say "its not worth it"
Anthill
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I went to look at a job for a contractor friend on monday. The young lady wanted to install new granite countertops with undermount sinks over some of the most beat up base cabinets I ever seen. The base was shaky just from leaning against it. It had been repaired several times in the past with wire, drywall screws, and what looked like a huge glue mess. Most of the drawer slides were broken and missing parts. The wall behind the cabinets were full of mold. I told her that the bases would need to be replaced if she were to go with granite because the weight of the top would cause further damage to a already weak base. I also showed her all the mold damage. I got a call from her husband a few hours later and he cussed me out for trying take advantage of his wife by upselling. He went on to say that I had no clue as to what I was talking about because he personally had done the prior repairs. He then threatened to call the better business bureau to report my shady business. I had my cell on speaker so my buddy could hear the conversation. All I could do was bite my tougue and let the guy rant. Meanwhile......my "so called" contractor buddy is two feet away listening to all this and was almost doubled over in tears laughing at me. He did present me with a bottle of "Jack" later on for the effort. Jeeeeees!
Be honest. "This is going to cost a lot of money and you probably won't get it back if you later on sell it" or the like. Sometimes people live in a dump but still want to look at something nice. All you can do is inform them of the cost/benefit trade off, then if they still want to do it, throw them a figure and if they agree to it, it's up to you whether or not you want to do it as it's their house and their money.
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I also had one of those kinds of jobs where I couldn't quite say no. The house had 3 inches of water in the crawl space during the dead of winter. Like a fool, I waded through the water on my back and belly but everything turned out OK. That was a very important lesson for me about saying "No. It isn't worth it."
I'd tell them that the cat issue is more than what I can handle. It's just not safe or healthy for anyone to be under there. Thanks and have a nice day.
I'd tell them that the cat issue is more than what I can handle. It's just not safe or healthy for anyone to be under there. Thanks and have a nice day.
Pffft, we ain't made of sugar, wade through the mud, collect the cheque, call it a day.
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My plan is to not do any crawl space work until unemployment is back at 10%. If you can't say no to a $200.00 bs crawlspace job it's time to work on your website.
I got out of the cat job it pushing it off till she finally forgot about it. Thanks everyone, I'm learning from your replies and I'll have to practice saying "no" some more. That's the disadvantage of being the guy that people call when they're in over their heads
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I'm starting to make a habit of bringing houses back from the dead. It can pay well, but it is also a big pain and a lot of extra work. What makes it worth it is seeing the customers face when the house looks better than they ever remember.
Sure, there are times you have to just put on the brakes and not add the new counter tops, or use linoleum instead of tile, and a 100,000 dollar house doesn't need 600 dollar fixtures. That is my job to try and steer them in the best direction for what they are trying to accomplish.
Most guys won't take on these jobs, but I don't mind.
Sure, there are times you have to just put on the brakes and not add the new counter tops, or use linoleum instead of tile, and a 100,000 dollar house doesn't need 600 dollar fixtures. That is my job to try and steer them in the best direction for what they are trying to accomplish.
Most guys won't take on these jobs, but I don't mind.
That's called opportunity... :thumbsup:
Generally this thread reminds me of many conversation, but one of the interesting ones was when an electrical contractor told a HO she should just buy a new house next time. Best thing that ever happened - the HO switched electricians, and had 2 more building completely rewired with no hassles.
Don't take a job if you're going to have a bad attitude about it.
Don't take a job if you're going to have a bad attitude about it.
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not but managing clients expectations is huge! If they are adamant and want it then take care of business...but if you hear them mention a crazy figure to sell their house after the work is done it would definitely be important to let them know your thoughts.
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To OP,
I always advocate for qualifying the customer further in your processes.
Never assume the customer is making a decision on economics and pragmatisim. Imagine how a pig FEELS wearing lipstick. AMAZING AND BEAUTIFUL. :thumbup:
What I have done in situations like this is tell the truth about concerns with the right follow up to maintain a polite exchange while still honoring your sincere concerns and qualifying the customer more deeply. In my view it is part of qualifying the customer and aiming for a high level of customer satisfaction in all of your processes including sales, recommendations and the legitimate advisory role you should take.
For example, "I am concerned that investing your money in this comparatively high end work for the neighborhood, that you would not be able to recover your investment IF you decided to sell. If you want to invest in this project for other reasons it would be helpful if I understood them. How important are the economics to your decision to invest in this project and what are the other reasons you want to do the project. :thumbsup:
I suspect the answer will be "I don't care about economics cause they aint sexy. It is something I have always wanted. This was my grandmothers house. I kissed my first boyfriend in the hallway closet. I carved my name in the tree about back when I was 7. I want the mo fo even of its the dumbest investment in the history of mankind. Do you want the job or not." :laughing:
At that point you can decide if you want to pursue the project. If not I would suggest many of the same suggestions already made with the best being "I am focused on other types of projects at the moment so I am not the right contractor for your project. I wish you well."
To be thorough, there is another camp that does not care to get into the customers reasons or economic well being. If they have the money and they want it for their own reasons, they do it without asking questions and they still sleep well. I don't think either way is wrong. It is a matter of what each values and their approach to taking or not taking responsibility for covering the wisdom of decisions a customer makes in an advisory capacity. Each camp might think the other is making mistakes.
Contractors that run with it without taking responsibility for advising against what might be an economically foolish are respecting the customers wishes without questioning the reason behind it other than they want it. Customer with money they want to spend for ants are adults with wants whether they are economically unsound or not. It is their prerogative to do so.
Contractors that question the wisdom of a decision for economics are concerned that customers are making a mistake they will regret and believe they are responsible to educate the customer for a harmful decision perhaps while ignoring that adults with money ought to be able to spend it on what they want without a judgment hassle from others or for purely economic reasons. Many customers make purchases for wholly uneconomic reasons. Happiness, ego, delusion, bragging rights, to prove a point, for the hell of it, boredom, tax deduction, etc.
There is no consensus on those two perspectives. I dont think either is wrong. They just have different beliefs and priorities.
Honoring your own comfort zone results in you working for the types of customers that agree with you and other contractors working with their type. That is a good outcome for everybody.
The amount of time and money invested and the type of project in these concerns also needs to be proportional or the whole conversation can be a silly waste of time.
I always advocate for qualifying the customer further in your processes.
Never assume the customer is making a decision on economics and pragmatisim. Imagine how a pig FEELS wearing lipstick. AMAZING AND BEAUTIFUL. :thumbup:
What I have done in situations like this is tell the truth about concerns with the right follow up to maintain a polite exchange while still honoring your sincere concerns and qualifying the customer more deeply. In my view it is part of qualifying the customer and aiming for a high level of customer satisfaction in all of your processes including sales, recommendations and the legitimate advisory role you should take.
For example, "I am concerned that investing your money in this comparatively high end work for the neighborhood, that you would not be able to recover your investment IF you decided to sell. If you want to invest in this project for other reasons it would be helpful if I understood them. How important are the economics to your decision to invest in this project and what are the other reasons you want to do the project. :thumbsup:
I suspect the answer will be "I don't care about economics cause they aint sexy. It is something I have always wanted. This was my grandmothers house. I kissed my first boyfriend in the hallway closet. I carved my name in the tree about back when I was 7. I want the mo fo even of its the dumbest investment in the history of mankind. Do you want the job or not." :laughing:
At that point you can decide if you want to pursue the project. If not I would suggest many of the same suggestions already made with the best being "I am focused on other types of projects at the moment so I am not the right contractor for your project. I wish you well."
To be thorough, there is another camp that does not care to get into the customers reasons or economic well being. If they have the money and they want it for their own reasons, they do it without asking questions and they still sleep well. I don't think either way is wrong. It is a matter of what each values and their approach to taking or not taking responsibility for covering the wisdom of decisions a customer makes in an advisory capacity. Each camp might think the other is making mistakes.
Contractors that run with it without taking responsibility for advising against what might be an economically foolish are respecting the customers wishes without questioning the reason behind it other than they want it. Customer with money they want to spend for ants are adults with wants whether they are economically unsound or not. It is their prerogative to do so.
Contractors that question the wisdom of a decision for economics are concerned that customers are making a mistake they will regret and believe they are responsible to educate the customer for a harmful decision perhaps while ignoring that adults with money ought to be able to spend it on what they want without a judgment hassle from others or for purely economic reasons. Many customers make purchases for wholly uneconomic reasons. Happiness, ego, delusion, bragging rights, to prove a point, for the hell of it, boredom, tax deduction, etc.
There is no consensus on those two perspectives. I dont think either is wrong. They just have different beliefs and priorities.
Honoring your own comfort zone results in you working for the types of customers that agree with you and other contractors working with their type. That is a good outcome for everybody.
The amount of time and money invested and the type of project in these concerns also needs to be proportional or the whole conversation can be a silly waste of time.
a sucker ? lol:whistling
It's a real quandary because, to the individual who has a monetary investment, they're just trying to do what it takes to keep the house from falling down.
Sometimes, it's just too little -- too late, but I try to give them a list of their options and explain when a repair is too costly.
I hate being in that position.
ill try and help them out ,alot of people let projects go too long and then they get more expensive {water damage, sub decking ,joists ,trusses,etc} ,you just cant get around the higher cost and make a micro profit ?:no:
I'm someone who never will turn down a job no matter how hard, how busy I am, how gross a job is. I'll just price accordingly to my situation. If I'm busy ill mark it up more in hopes that I dont get it but if I do ill have money to pay for overtime or hire another guy. If its gross just price accordingly and be honest. " It's gross down there have you seen it? I'm going to have to charge 5000 because it so gross." The worse thats going to happen is you don't get the job or maybe they will do the demo and cleanup to save the 5000. So you'll just have to do the work. But always be honest and make sure you make money.
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Ain't that the truth...
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I believe honesty is key here. My company doesn't do projects under $50K so when we encounter prospects who want to go below, we let them know our stance so they can take either adjust their budget or take their business elsewhere. If you're the type to deliver quality work, then stand by it and know the budget you deserve.
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Last person I did this to, hired the competition. They had no problem taking their money.
They have a $20,000 house, spent $45,000 on it. Now it's worth 28,000.
I suppose I thought I was doing the right thing by trying to save their money. Turns out, they didn't want to save their money. They wanted to spend it. Foolishly.
They have a $20,000 house, spent $45,000 on it. Now it's worth 28,000.
I suppose I thought I was doing the right thing by trying to save their money. Turns out, they didn't want to save their money. They wanted to spend it. Foolishly.
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