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Will you separate material cost and labor cost if asked by your customer?

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maleko

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm getting more and more customers asking me to separate my labor and material after I send them the estimate.
Would you?

If so or not how do you respond?
Am I over thinking this? I think they are trying to see if we are marking up the material etc.. And or trying to figure what I'm trying to make off them.
 
#3 ·
I don't see a problem with separating material & labor. In fact, I always do. I don't go crazy with it, but usually go to the extent of: windows & doors: ***x, framing: ***x, finish & trim: ***x, plumbing: ***x, HVAC: ***x, etc...

I Make sure to put the brands of big ticket items (windows, doors, HVAC units, etc...) so they know they are getting quality products for the price.
 
#4 ·
Depends upon the job, but I usually don't as I see no reason why they would need to know the cost breakdown of things unless they are only interested in paying for part of it. They pay the whole bill, so I give them the whole price. I guess the equivalent from our end would be to ask them how much equity they have in their house and how much money they make.
 
#5 ·
This is all part of a new culture and mind set. There are so many people playing contractor that do it part time or temporarily that they day labor. The costs and bids have wild swings.
Like the south americans, they dont carry alot of insurance or pay into retirement accounts they work for the day. I swear it seems like if you put more than 10% mark-up on a job these days people dont call you back. The under bidding is bad.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
It just seems like we are the only ones who get asked this.

The job is a deck. Tear off old decking and replace with new decking.

They want me to break down how much im charging to remove it. How much jm charging to install it. And how much the material is costing me

We are supplying a service they want. They dont ask to break down the cost of stuff they purchase at a store. Why dont they ask them , how much was the shipping on this product. How much was the assembly of this product. How much is your overhead to store this product.
Just getting tired of it
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Just trying to find a nice way to say. Sorry i dont break down the cost. Without sounding like im hiding something.
Theres alot involved in a price. Overhead. Time to and from supply yard. Figuring estimate. Insurance. Etc
 
#8 ·
If a customer asks us to do that we simply explain that our pricing is based on formula's that are update bi-annually to allow for market fluctuation. We put in SF, CF, LF or whatever measurement is needed and the price is automatically generated.

We provide a detailed scope of work along with a total investment for your project.

To go back and break it down item by item would take a long time and that would cost $X X X.00
 
#10 ·
The fact that there asking says it all doesnt it?

I priced out a deck for someone recently. It was an existing treated 2nd floor deck. No stair footings, the stair landing was out of square with the deck, the existing footings were all heaved and they wanted a capped composite deck. The existing was diagonal and straight runs were too long without butt joints so inlays and picture framing was needed. No existing 4x4 or blocking anywhere. (more framing). Plus a cantilver and lateral connectors were needed. Almost no nails in existing joist hangers.
I broke it down by footing repairs, framing modifactions and code upgrades, decking and PVC skirting. I knew it was going to be expensive and the repairs were not an option but the finishing can be. Maybe I was just a price check for someone else but I couldnt even get a budget out of them or a sit down follow up on what we can do and where.
 
#11 ·
I recently had an architect ask me to itemize a punch list, and it was a bunch of little stuff. After she got it, she haggled the line items. I kindly told her that maybe she could get her husband to do some of the work...."oh no, he doesn't have the time!"

For small jobs I try not to, but they seem to be asking more and more anyway. I did a crown job recently that was patching into existing. 6 walls, all corners were connecting to existing work since I removed a bunch of window treatment boxes. Half of the work was 3-part build up. I gave the total linear feet of the work, and that's it. Not my material breakdown.

Bigger jobs do get some breakdown if I must, and even that can be tricky. You don't want to lose a bath remodel over a $300 difference in a line item like demo & trash haul, but folks will get hung up on a simple thing like that.
 
#15 ·
maleko said:
This is what i was thinking.
Click to expand...
It completely depends on the job but typical I give a fixed rate bulk prices and when people ask me I tell them this:

The price I propose is based upon a fixed rate calculation, there are no additional charger if the job goes beyond my estimate. If you would prefer to work on a time and material basis my hourly rate per man/hr is $75.

If you would like a labor or material only estimate their combined total will be higher as complete project fixed rate pricing is lower.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Inner10 said:
It completely depends on the job but typical I give a fixed rate bulk prices and when people ask me I tell them this:

The price I propose is based upon a fixed rate calculation, there are no additional charger if the job goes beyond my estimate. If you would prefer to work on a time and material basis my hourly rate per man/hr is $75.

If you would like a labor or material only estimate their combined total will be higher as complete project fixed rate pricing is lower.
Click to expand...
I like that. But, the part about no additional charge if the job goes beyond the estimate can be taken a few ways no?
What if you find damage that was unseen and needs to be repaired to complete your job. Do you just fix it at no cost? Just thinking how a homeowner may read that.
 
#18 ·
maleko said:
I like that. But, the part about no additional charge if the job goes beyond the estimate can be taken a few ways no?
What if you find damage that was unseen and needs to be repaired to complete your job. Do you just fix it at no cost? Just thinking how a homeowner may read that.
Click to expand...

Hidden / concealed clause in the contract covers this.
 
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#19 ·
We only break down a job for the different scopes of work, Siding installed , soffit and fascia work installed , windows installed price. Or anything else it is sold as a completed job material and labor. Most of the time we order extra material to make sure there is as little hold up on the job as can be, And we will tell the customer that and that any extra material belongs to us.
 
#20 ·
the short answer is,

"No."

slightly longer answer is, " I am sorry, but is our company policy to not spend time on a break down of that sort"

Additionally I can tell you that in 25 plus years of my running this gig and as far as I know in the last 4 generations of my families envolvement in this business we have never gotten a job after being asked for this breakdown-so when asked I immediately begin dis-engaging and heading for the exit------------

but if you want some giggles---------- just look them in the eye and ask them why they want that sort of breakdown------------ because invariably they will turn 8 shades of red,hem,haw ,stammer,and finally admidt they intend to price shop different operations, nickel and dime you, self perform some of the work and in-general waste your time.

actually they are doing you a favor by asking for that breakdown,because it is a crystal clear signal that you can stop wasting time on them, LOL
Stephen
 
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