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Any experience with sound deadening underlayment for hardwood install

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m2akita

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Going to be installing solid oak flooring in first floor of a house. First floor is over a finished basement. Customer says that if they are in the basement they can pretty much hear everything that is going on in the first floor.

Has anyone had any experience using any of the sound deadening underlayments ( foam, cork, rubber, etc.)? My gut feeling is that it would not do much for sound transmission from floor to floor, but willing to try.

Thanks for any info.
 
#2 ·
m2akita said:
Going to be installing solid oak flooring in first floor of a house. First floor is over a finished basement. Customer says that if they are in the basement they can pretty much hear everything that is going on in the first floor.

Has anyone had any experience using any of the sound deadening underlayments ( foam, cork, rubber, etc.)? My gut feeling is that it would not do much for sound transmission from floor to floor, but willing to try.

Thanks for any info.
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It helps..Soundboard is probably best...i have used quiet walk...cork soundboard an he black underlay..(forget what its called)all help with he sound transmission but it doesn't stop it completely
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
I will look into the floor muffler. See if it is available around here.

When you say sound board, is that the stuff like homosoate (sp?).

Will find out how much one can hear in the basement and see if I feel it is an unreasnable amount.
 
#9 ·
m2akita said:
I will look into the floor muffler. See if it is available around here.

When you say sound board, is that the stuff like homosoate (sp?).

Will find out how much one can hear in the basement and see if I feel it is an unreasnable amount.
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Yes...homasote board..did a whole condo complex with it..
 
#10 ·
MIKE ANTONETTI said:
Once you nail through the sound deadening material the sound travels thru the nails! Hello,hello,hello,hello!
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Maybe in the land of Alexander Graham Bell but here basic sound absorption fundamentals apply..

Tap a glass with a fork...then hold it and do it...the nails are imbedded in the material which ABSORB...sound..
 
#14 ·
The underlayments I've used - WECU cork, probase, and ecore QT - are oustanding at reducing impact noise - clicking, clacking, scraping, and banging. They're not great at reducing voices and stereo, and they won't do anything to reduce creaking floor joists.

For what it's worth, the manufacturers are adamant about not nailing, unless you're nailing into a plywood underlayment that is floated or glued on top of an acoustic layer.

Effective sound reduction requires a systems approach - increased mass to reduce sound transmission, dampening layers to reduce impact noise, caulk and other fillers to eliminated flanking paths, structural work to get rid of creaking structure. A single item - acoustic underlayment, for example - is unlikely to solve a problem that has several elements.

You should emphasize the systems approach to the customer, and be very careful about what you promise. If you have to pick only one approach, adding mass isn't a bad idea - additional layers of sheetrock, or lead sheet under the flooring. If you're going to nail the solid floor into wood subfloor, which is nailed to the joists, don't waste your customer's money with an acoustic underlayment.

Sorry to lecture.
 
#15 ·
I can't resist lecturing a little more....:eek:

It also depends on the pitch of the sound. Low-frequency, long-wavelength noises - bass-heavy music, the "muffle" from TV, low-pitched voices - are in large part transmitted by the reverberation of the floor membrane. Those waves, with wavelengths maybe around 10 or 20 feet, don't travel well through small holes (cracks in the door, wiring paths, etc.). They do like it when the floor behaves as a drum head and reverberates in sympathy with the noise. You can reduce that noise transmission by increasing the mass of the floor (making it heavier) or by raising its harmonics (by making it stiffer).

That's a long, pedantic way (my specialty:jester:) of saying in combination with my prior post, that it all depends on what kind of sound you want to stop.

But still, don't waste your customer's money by nailing through an acoustic underlayment.
 
#16 ·
CarpenterSFO said:
I can't resist lecturing a little more....:eek:

It also depends on the pitch of the sound. Low-frequency, long-wavelength noises - bass-heavy music, the "muffle" from TV, low-pitched voices - are in large part transmitted by the reverberation of the floor membrane. Those waves, with wavelengths maybe around 10 or 20 feet, don't travel well through small holes (cracks in the door, wiring paths, etc.). They do like it when the floor behaves as a drum head and reverberates in sympathy with the noise. You can reduce that noise transmission by increasing the mass of the floor (making it heavier) or by raising its harmonics (by making it stiffer).

That's a long, pedantic way (my specialty:jester:) of saying in combination with my prior post, that it all depends on what kind of sound you want to stop.

But still, don't waste your customer's money by nailing through an acoustic underlayment.
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Well overthought and overstated..i think most people realize unless you build out of lead your not stopping sound..i think for most is the simple footstep echoing over head....sheeesh
 
#17 ·
jamestrd said:
Well overthought and overstated..i think most people realize unless you build out of lead your not stopping sound..i think for most is the simple footstep echoing over head....sheeesh
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Mea culpa :whistling

Footstep overhead? eCore or probase, glued or floating. Don't waste your customer's money nailing through it.:whistling
 
#18 ·
CarpenterSFO said:
Mea culpa :whistling

Footstep overhead? eCore or probase, glued or floating. Don't waste your customer's money nailing through it.:whistling
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oh boy...another wannabe engineer..

but in the interest of what may turn out to be a boring debate..

lets examine the factshere.

firstly..I defer you to the fork and glass scenario.

now..the fact the a sound barrier is nailed into does not take away the facvt that it is insulated in the sound absorbtion materials.

no one here says this ia a total sound proofing, but easing loud hollow echoing of footsteps etc.

floating would absolutely be better as the top flooring is not fastened to the subflooring and creating "one " substrate..surely to pieces of material not affixed would not transmit sounds as much as 2 materials that are attached to each other.

now, in order for your nail theory to have an actual factor in this, after a nail is driven in to hardwood..where the first insulation process begin, it goes through sound barrier, which insulates, into another subfloor, which further insulates..

in order for a fastener to compromise this process at all, in keeping with type A over thinking engineers, the fastener would actually have to penetrate all the way through, which is nearly impossible with any conventional and standard flooring fastener..most materials will not allow for a cleat or staple to pass through 3/4 floor, 1/4 -1/2 sound barrier and 3/4 subfoor..


lastly for your entertainment and to further your already vast plethera of knowledge on the subject,
i defer you to Homasotes link below.

I rest my case your honor.

http://www.homasote.com/Installation/440_installation_highlights.pdf
 
#19 ·
and as for taking customers money...yes thank you..i will continue to do so as that is my job...to take their money..I don't promise rose gardens but it it makes me a few thousand to make them feel warm and fuzzy...

and get some added features like a softer floor, warmer floor, their high heels to sound like they walking in a tunnel..dame strait..i'll take their money all day long.

you asked for it, you got it Mrs.HO..no problem
 
#20 · (Edited)
Thanks, James.

Of course an IIC of 51 (Homasote's own numbers for T&G) means that approach really isn't very good - would never be allowed in multi-family housing around here. They have pretty good numbers for when the finish is glued or floated.

Yes, we're all in this business to make money. It's a good thing if we can actually solve the customer's problem at the same time, and not just blow smoke.

For me, this usually comes up in condos - there are rules about it in CA for multi-family housing. Applies to rentals, too. Condos require the spec with test results, and they inspect the underlayment and flooring installations to make sure it's AMI.

For the O.P., it depends on his relationship with the H.O. Is he doing this and he's out of there? Or does he have or want to build a continuing relationship with them? Obviously the H.O. doesn't want to know any of the details, just that there's a solution.

Gotta run and make some of the money you mentioned. We have a condo association inspection of our underlayment (ecore 4005) this morning.
 
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