Is Porter Cable now producing homeowner grade tools instead of Pro grade?

Gatorb888 · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
It's prob around the $10 mark as I can get the cells in bulk packs for around a $1 a cell but when your buying as many as dewalt will be i bet they get them at around $0.50-$0.60 a cell. So thats $6 for the cells and then the casing and electronics.

Also consider the cost of labor to assemble them, packaging, and then to ship them to the US (which means taxes). I can't discuss cost, I'm sorry, that is something I could get in trouble for. :whistling

The Coastal Craftsman · Dec 22, 2011

Gatorb888 said:
Also consider the cost of labor to assemble them, packaging, and then to ship them to the US (which means taxes). I can't discuss cost, I'm sorry, that is something I could get in trouble for. :whistling

I would be very surprised if they cost more than $10 with the amount they make. Li-po packs on my rc cars are far more advanced than the li-ion packs and I get them for around $20 for a 5s pack which is a equivalent of the dewalt cells in voltage and capacity. I have been told it's costing them around $5 to make them rc packs.

rselectric1 · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
I would be very surprised if they cost more than $10 with the amount they make. Li-po packs on my rc cars are far more advanced than the li-ion packs and I get them for around $20 for a 5s pack which is a equivalent of the dewalt cells in voltage and capacity. I have been told it's costing them around $5 to make them rc packs.

BC, let's please not debate things like this with this gentleman.

We are glad to have him here representing a company whose products we all have "at least one of" in our trucks, and he is here on his own time to assist.

PowerWash · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
Wouldn't your money be better spent on a drill that last longer than a year? My makita still runs after 6 years and it's been abused. Still have one original battery from that kit as well. My impact is still going strong and it's from the same pack. I don't get the mentality of buying tools that don't last!

I have never had a makita, dewalt, bosch, or ridgid last more than two years. Someting always wore out (chuck or switch), or was abused by myself or one of the guys (dropped from heights).

I totally get the want of higher end tools like festool, but it just does not seem to be in the cards for me. It does not make sense for me. I can replace the drill or driver for $50, new baterry $30, new charger $30, or a whole new 4 piece kit with batterries and charger for $130. My level of "pissed off ness" has gone down significantly down since I started treating tools as money makers and not spending to much time or money replacing them.

They just do not make the tools to last anymore (and seems worse over the last 3-4 years), it does not seem to matter what brand it is. I will admit that I have not used Festool or Panasonic cordless products, so I can not speak for those, but at their price I can replace with PC products many times for cheaper.

The Coastal Craftsman · Dec 22, 2011

rselectric1 said:
BC, let's please not debate things like this with this gentleman.

We are glad to have him here representing a company whose products we all have "at least one of" in our trucks, and he is here on his own time to assist.

I think the previous poster has a valid question. Why are the packs so exspensive? It's not just dewalt that have packs selling so high but all of them. I would alsolove to know why they are so exspensive. There must be a valid reason as to why such high mark ups on the batteries. Especially when the failure rates of dewalt packs are so high.

The Coastal Craftsman · Dec 22, 2011

PowerWash said:
I have never had a makita, dewalt, bosch, or ridgid last more than two years. Someting always wore out (chuck or switch), or was abused by myself or one of the guys (dropped from heights).

I totally get the want of higher end tools like festool, but it just does not seem to be in the cards for me. It does not make sense for me. I can replace the drill or driver for $50, new baterry $30, new charger $30, or a whole new 4 piece kit with batterries and charger for $130. My level of "pissed off ness" has gone down significantly down since I started treating tools as money makers and not spending to much time or money replacing them.

They just do not make the tools to last anymore (and seems worse over the last 3-4 years), it does not seem to matter what brand it is. I will admit that I have not used Festool or Panasonic cordless products, so I can not speak for those, but at their price I can replace with PC products many times for cheaper.

What I'm trying to say is you will spend much less money in the long term buying quality tools. Buying cheap tools you use to make you money is like filling up your truck with 5 gallons of fuel when you goto the gas station. It's cheaper in the short term but you should have filled the tank up as it would have lasted much longer and you would have far fewer trips back to the gas station.

rselectric1 · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
I think the previous poster has a valid question. Why are the packs so exspensive? It's not just dewalt that have packs selling so high but all of them. I would alsolove to know why they are so exspensive. There must be a valid reason as to why such high mark ups on the batteries. Especially when the failure rates of dewalt packs are so high.

Completely agreed. I spent a few years paying nearly 90 bucks for Milwaukee replacement batteries. BUT this is not the right thread to bring that up in. Maybe start a new thread for that.:thumbsup: Fair enough?

The Coastal Craftsman · Dec 22, 2011

rselectric1 said:
Completely agreed. I spent a few years paying nearly 90 bucks for Milwaukee replacement batteries. BUT this is not the right thread to bring that up in. Maybe start a new thread for that.:thumbsup: Fair enough?

I'm not so worried that I need to start another thread. just thought it was a good question seeings the guy is a sales guy and not a technical guy :thumbsup:

PowerWash · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
What I'm trying to say is you will spend much less money in the long term buying quality tools. Buying cheap tools you use to make you money is like filling up your truck with 5 gallons of fuel when you goto the gas station. It's cheaper in the short term but you should have filled the tank up as it would have lasted much longer and you would have far fewer trips back to the gas station.

Your right, I am wrong :thumbsup:

Gatorb888 · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
I think the previous poster has a valid question. Why are the packs so exspensive? It's not just dewalt that have packs selling so high but all of them. I would alsolove to know why they are so exspensive. There must be a valid reason as to why such high mark ups on the batteries. Especially when the failure rates of dewalt packs are so high.

I'm opening a can of worms here, but here it goes.
I'll give you an example. Think of Razors and Razor Blades. Now trust me, the mark up on batteries isn't that extreme, I want to get sick every time I have to buy razor blades (hence I grew a beard). The margin on cordless tools isn't great, so the companies have to make it up somewhere.

Keep in mind, a lot of companies are offering great warranties on their batteries. (Dewalts 3 year warranty on the new 20v 3.0 Ah for example) So power tool companies aren't out there making crap batteries so that you have to buy more. We know that customers are going to keep buying tools that last (I can reference almost every thread in this forum to back that up).

Tom Struble · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
I don't get the mentality of buying tools that don't last!

we know you've told us...and told us and...:whistling

CO762 · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
it was a good question seeings the guy is a sales guy and not a technical guy

Sales people usually aren't involved in costing, design, engineering, shipping, (their) customer markup, etc. IMO if there were some inexpensive tool batteries that were high capacity, I'd bet someone would put that on the market and clean up. It's a competitive enough market out there that if there were a way to charge 1/8th what batteries cost now, they'd do it to capture that market and after all, you'd use their tools for that battery.

moorewarner · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
I think the previous poster has a valid question. Why are the packs so exspensive? It's not just dewalt that have packs selling so high but all of them. I would alsolove to know why they are so exspensive. There must be a valid reason as to why such high mark ups on the batteries. Especially when the failure rates of dewalt packs are so high.

Gatorb888 said:
I'm opening a can of worms here, but here it goes.
I'll give you an example. Think of Razors and Razor Blades. Now trust me, the mark up on batteries isn't that extreme, I want to get sick every time I have to buy razor blades (hence I grew a beard). The margin on cordless tools isn't great, so the companies have to make it up somewhere.

Keep in mind, a lot of companies are offering great warranties on their batteries. (Dewalts 3 year warranty on the new 20v 3.0 Ah for example) So power tool companies aren't out there making crap batteries so that you have to buy more. We know that customers are going to keep buying tools that last (I can reference almost every thread in this forum to back that up).

Printers and cartridges is the sales model that came to my mind; especially since the bats are proprietary you gotta figure they are using them to increase the low margin of the tools.

The Coastal Craftsman · Dec 22, 2011

Yeah I bet the margins on tools is low. Body only prices of some tools are so cheap I have no idea how they make them for that price but they still must be making something off them.

Tom it's not normally me who even starts them threads or adds to them. Lately I have made a few comments about buying better tools but it's few and far between. I def post more threads about festool being good tools though

mattsk8 · Dec 22, 2011

BC, don't take this the wrong way because I tend to agree w/ you on a lot of these debates and respect you. I just don't see how you can promote Festool then complain about the price of Dewalt's cordless batteries :blink:.

That being said, as far as PC's cordless line goes I was never overly impressed w/ em from go. When they first came out w/ them I had my Milwaukee cordless tools and remember using someone on the jobsites PC drill for something (going back about 15 years or so) and thinking, "what a turd". PC has always made some decent corded woodworking tools though. I love my PC 7519 and my 892 routers, my PC biscuit joiner, and my PC jigsaw (15 years on the jigsaw so far). I also love my Dewalt DW621 plunge router (that's getting pretty old now too).

I did heating and cooling for a year and remember the company I worked for only used the Tigersaw sawsalls. Those seemed to be pretty solid too. They still make those?

JT Wood · Dec 22, 2011

mattsk8 said:
I did heating and cooling for a year and remember the company I worked for only used the Tigersaw sawsalls. Those seemed to be pretty solid too. They still make those?

Yeah, but they are not the same as the glory years:no:

The Coastal Craftsman · Dec 22, 2011

mattsk8 said:
BC, don't take this the wrong way because I tend to agree w/ you on a lot of these debates and respect you. I just don't see how you can promote Festool then complain about the price of Dewalt's cordless batteries :blink:.

That being said, as far as PC's cordless line goes I was never overly impressed w/ em from go. When they first came out w/ them I had my Milwaukee cordless tools and remember using someone on the jobsites PC drill for something (going back about 15 years or so) and thinking, "what a turd". PC has always made some decent corded woodworking tools though. I love my PC 7519 and my 892 routers, my PC biscuit joiner, and my PC jigsaw (15 years on the jigsaw so far). I also love my Dewalt DW621 plunge router (that's getting pretty old now too).

I did heating and cooling for a year and remember the company I worked for only used the Tigersaw sawsalls. Those seemed to be pretty solid too. They still make those?

How is battery price and festool price related? Not sure where your coming from? Yep festool may be expensive in some people eyes but to most they see the value in them. I bet you there's not one person on this from who thinks battery's are worth there asking price. It's one of them things though. You have a choice to buy festool. You don't have a choice to replace battery's. You need them you have to buy them.

CraigHarimon · Dec 22, 2011

BCConstruction said:
How is battery price and festool price related? Not sure where your coming from? Yep festool may be expensive in some people eyes but to most they see the value in them. I bet you there's not one person on this from who thinks battery's are worth there asking price. It's one of them things though. You have a choice to buy festool. You don't have a choice to replace battery's. You need them you have to buy them.

This is insightful.... cordless tools are now Indispensable based on the VERY last sentence of your post... There is always a choice. we can buy batteries or drag out a cord for everything we now use a cordless for. Looking at the alternatives helps remind us that batteries for cordless tools are one of the best Value purchases around. The reality is if all cordless batteries were 2x the price we would still buy because cordless tools offer that much extra Value over what was before. look what has happened with gas

RS Sam · Dec 22, 2011

To answer the question of the post - Sadly these days - YES - IMHO.

Is Porter Cable now producing homeowner grade tools instead of Pro grade?

Gatorb888

The Coastal Craftsman

rselectric1

PowerWash

The Coastal Craftsman

The Coastal Craftsman

rselectric1

The Coastal Craftsman

PowerWash

Gatorb888

Tom Struble

CO762

moorewarner

The Coastal Craftsman

mattsk8

JT Wood

The Coastal Craftsman

CraigHarimon

RS Sam

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