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Valley Sleepers

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FramerPDX

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
how do you guys calculate valley sleepers?

I know on the construction Master you can get cuts for plywood wood for valley I usually use this with just a much larger scale of course ? just wondering what you guys do ... let me know ....


-Ty
 
#2 ·
#3 · (Edited)
I will use a girder truss for an example. I will assume some things. I put ply down before the overframe. It does help getting the measurement that you need.

If you take a block of wood, just a scrap, that is the thickness of your valley board (I'm assuming a 2x), you lay this on the plywood surface near the lower end of where the valley board is going to intersect the girder.

Wherever the top surface of your block intersects the top surface of your girder, make a mark, and do it on both ends. Measure from one mark to the other and this is your "span". Half of this number is your run.

So say your run (not your span) is 11'-5 3/8"

What you type into the CM is

11[feet]5[inch]3[/]8[run]

and pitch we'll say 6"

6"[pitch]

[hip/val]

17'-2 1/16"

This is the length of your length valley board.

Then you need the angles, top and bottom. You already have the numbers, but you need to punch them in differently.

Picture a large right triangle angled on the surface of your main roof sheathing, where the run is directly underneath where your ridge board is going to go. I wish I had graphics, it would make it so much easier.

The rise that you punch in, that was your previous run. Remember, we are just trying to figure your angles. Your diagonal was your hip/val measurement.

So, what you punch into the CM is

11[feet]5[inch]3/8"[rise]
17[feet]2[inch]1/16"[dia

[pitch][pitch]

41.81°

This is the angle across your board on the lower end. The angle on your saw is the main roof pitch (6/12 or 26.57°)

and minus 90° to get your top angle

48.19°

No angle on your saw at the top.

Lay the two boards down roughly where they are going and line the valley edge with the top face of the girder. The edge of your valley board planes with the top surface of your roof (obviously) The top part of the valley boards should meet nice and snug. Then you lay your ridge on top of this.

Now, one thing to mention....if your building is not square to begin with, this is not going to come out exactly the way you want it. If someone thinks it is a problem, then I would suggest building the house square in the first place, then there's no problem.

I've done it this way for years. If you use a CM, and you are a thinking man, you can literally cut all parts and pieces without anyone giving you one measurement. It's easier if someone gives you that first measurement, but after that, it's quite possible to get all of your measurements by yourself.

HTH
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
yepp

this is how I have been doing it I love the CM I really love the fact that I have the app on my Iphone now lol ...

cheaper then buying a new calculator ...

thanks for taking the time to explain it that was great ...

-Ty
 
#5 ·
….. Some other solves for precutting the saddle style overlay roof calculations.

Instead of marking both sides of the girder, block-mark one side and measure the top cord “Rafter” length of the girder. Enter that as the [Diag] of the girder's pitch that you have the CM set to work with, press [Hip/V] to solve the sleeper valley length.

Now press [Run] and subtract half the ridge's thickness to solve for the ridge length. Layout the ridge so the jacks will break the sheathing from the truss layouts and take the longest layout from the pointy end of the ridge and use that as the starting run for the valley jack rafters. If the layout breaks o.c. from the girder then the ridge length can be used and the jack lengths will be to the short-point of the valley bevel miters so just save the ridge length as the new [Run] and press the jack button and record the lengths. If you prefer marking and cutting the long-points add the rafter thickness to the ridge length first.

You can calculate for precutting irregulars too.
 
#8 ·
I don’t want to rain on everybody’s parade but there is a difference between a valley sleeper and a true valley.
The first step in learning complex roofs is learning the correct terminology.
The reason we call it a “sleeper” is because it “rest” on an opposing roof.
A true valley is where to joining roofs share a common beam
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
hmm

you probably dont need to use a calculator to figure it out I just like to use every short cut I can ...

I have used CM for years and love it ... so why not take advantage of it for the sleepers to get all the angles and length just right the first time ...

-Ty
 
#11 ·
festerized said:
I don’t want to rain on everybody’s parade but there is a difference between a valley sleeper and a true valley.
The first step in learning complex roofs is learning the correct terminology.
The reason we call it a “sleeper” is because it “rest” on an opposing roof.
A true valley is where to joining roofs share a common beam
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where you are talking about differences between overframed and true valleys and terminologies. I know what you mean by it, I'm just not sure where in the conversation there was any confusion.
 
#12 ·
FramerPDX said:
you probably dont need to use a calculator to figure it out I just like to use every short cut I can ...

I have used CM for years and love it ... so why not take advantage of it for the sleepers to get all the angles and length just right the first time ...

-Ty
Click to expand...
Valley sleepers, or plates as we refer to them, are the one place I don't bother with a calculator. More often than not, in my experience, the roofs are different slopes. I find it easy enough to sheath the through roof first, then snap lines in from ridge to fascia intersections, then for the plate. The angles are quickly found with a speed square and the bottom bevel matches the plumb cut angle at the ridge.
 
#13 · (Edited)
festerized said:
I don’t want to rain on everybody’s parade but there is a difference between a valley sleeper and a true valley.
The first step in learning complex roofs is learning the correct terminology.
The reason we call it a “sleeper” is because it “rest” on an opposing roof.
A true valley is where to joining roofs share a common beam
Click to expand...
Did anyone say that there wasn't a difference?
 
#15 ·
loneframer said:
Valley sleepers, or plates as we refer to them, are the one place I don't bother with a calculator. More often than not, in my experience, the roofs are different slopes. I find it easy enough to sheath the through roof first, then snap lines in from ridge to fascia intersections, then for the plate. The angles are quickly found with a speed square and the bottom bevel matches the plumb cut angle at the ridge.
Click to expand...
I dare say we have all done them that way, and still do occasionally. Often the sleeper does not completely fill/or follow the valley line, or the full hypotenuse of a complete triangle and the ridge is already in and supporting a broken hip to a taller ridge and the valley is overlaying a sloped ceiling below. . . .

All the overlay fill-ins can still be CM calc’d faster than the lines are popped and rafters layed out and measured. The length (a proportion of the run, 1:1 for regulars) of the ridge is the easiest dimension to use and scribing the sleeper valley to it instead of the rafter works just as well. Valleys and step-offs for Irregulars are simple with the CM too.

But sometimes doing things like you always have is just easier. It produces the same results. I rarely pop those valley lines anymore, but occasionally they are helpful to straighten things out with. And cutting them in from above as we go is still my preference either way.
 
#16 · (Edited)
JustaFramer said:
I didn't realize there was a need to use a calculator for a valley sleepers.
Click to expand...
We occasionally framed our laid-on valley roof systems on the ground. When you do that, it helps to be able to correctly calculate everything. If you precut the major components using the theoretical length, and they all fit together without fighting them, you can confidently continue with the remainder of the installation.

Confidence is a key ingredient to production/speed.

You wouldn't want to build a dozen of these dormers wrong.....
 

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