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Lead Paint, What's Involved?

 
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:16 AM   #1
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Lead Paint, What's Involved?


I recently price a job at the local college. An 80’ long fire escape, 3rd floor down
Upon looking at it and talking to the guy I suspected it may have Lead paint.
Plus the guy says “The man that works at OSHA drives by at 3 every day. If you look that’s the only time we wear hard hats…” That made me nervous to.
He had the college test it and it came back LEAD paint. I declined the job. The only thing I’ve done with lead is at a ship yard and everything was done inside with air feed respirators.
The state of Maine has regs. For removal of lead paint by hand, I’ve used these painting houses, but when you get into blasting it makes it a whole new ball game.
My questions are: (But not limited to, please add if you see something missing!)
Do you need a qualification course to take off lead?
What is involved in blasting something with lead, tents, negative pressure air flow, testing of air???
What about removal, transportation, personal ppe etc...
Where can I send a sample to get fast testing done?
Can someone shed some light on this stuff? or add anything helpful?
The Gov. Sites are not too helpful.
Thanks Guys I know you got the answers…
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:37 AM   #2
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/lead/index.htm

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Old 06-22-2009, 07:50 AM   #3
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


i believe home depot sells a cheap and quick lead test kit...at least down here in florida they do.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:53 AM   #4
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Don't depend on the lead test kit from HD. Take a chisel and a zip lock bag and remove some paint all the way down to the bare steel. You would probably need to get at lest 1/4 of a sandwich bag full and take it to a lab and have a T-Clip test run on the 8 heavy metals. This will get you the amount of lead that is present for your job. Go the the Maine website that is listed above. remember, House hold lead removal is different. You will need a compentent supervisor on site for the lead removal process. In the industrial field these people have been thru SSPC's C-3 Certification Class for De-Leading of Industrial Structures. The thing about lead removal from houses is different is when you sandblast to remove lead base coatings the lead is broken down way smaller than it is when scraping with a scraper on a window frame. So the rules are different. One other thing. the lead laws have changed and the emmisions is a lot tighter. Be careful. And remember, the owner of the job is also the owner of the lead. They are considered a Generator as well in the removal process. If you get in trouble, then they are responsable as well. So It is up to them to hire someone that can remove the lead the right way. By the way, I am C-3 Certified, so if you need some help, give me a call.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:20 AM   #5
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Thanks JonM
After many hours on this site, and I’ve looked here before, and I still get tangled up in the mess of what’s, what
Almost all of the info pertains to house paint removal. Anything else is directed to calling the state to talk to an inspector or a person that is qualified.
I feel as soon as you call the state you’re a marked man.
I did find a private group that has a 40 hour class for Lead abatement contractor/supervisor
Environmental Management, Inc. also provides training courses on lead inspection as outlined by HUD, Maine DEP and OSHA.
Do you guys think this is worth checking into?
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:14 AM   #6
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


First of all yes, you need a license to deal with lead. Also there is no way you can blast lead. You cant even use a pressure washer. A licensed risk accessor needs to do the test as well. You can't just go on a stick. The stick is used to see if you need to call an accessor. www.epa.gov
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:22 AM   #7
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Dyer, Like I said. Household lead paint removal is a different animal than industrial which involves sandblasting. Your going to need to get certification to remove by abrasive blasting. You will encounter full containment with ventilation and then outside air monitoring, plus you will need to take surrounding soil samples before you even begin the job. You will need a onsite shower facility so your men can shower before they leave the work zone. It would probably be cheaper for your customer to just take the structure down and build a new one anyway. If you follow lead paint removal for households then your getting yourself into a big bowl of worms. I know several contractors that went down that road. That certification is only good for removing lead base coatings in homes. I will say this. If you have never done lead removal work before, then it would be best not to get into it. One job will not pay for the expense. You would have to pretty much train people and do nothing else. Check out this website: http://www.sspc.org/training/c-3.html

Here is another: http://www.paintsquare.com/library/a...Violations.pdf

And Another: http://www.paintsquare.com/library/a...ontainment.pdf

Not trying to scare you, just giving you some facts. When you go and start sandblasting lead base coatings you are going way beyond household removal methods. There is a lot more worker training and safety measures. You cannot even blow yourself down with air at the end of the day. Protect yourself. You do not want to get caught.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:23 AM   #8
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


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Originally Posted by XanadooLTD View Post
First of all yes, you need a license to deal with lead. Also there is no way you can blast lead. You cant even use a pressure washer. A licensed risk accessor needs to do the test as well. You can't just go on a stick. The stick is used to see if you need to call an accessor. www.epa.gov

Lead is sandblasted off every day. You have to have the right equipment and protection measures in place.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:16 AM   #9
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Rather then blasting, you should try looking into some of these products...non toxic and sprayable....http://www.napiere.com/products/
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:03 AM   #10
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


When I was Blasting at the Ship Yard we had to get blood tested every 6 Months for lead and cadmium, Changed into work cloths before shift, and after the shift we got showers. We had our own locker rooms to. We had 3 buildings for blasting. all 70’x70’x60’. The boats looked like sliced tootsie pops.
16 men, blasting in one building, all at the same time.
I don’t miss it at all.
Like I said everything about lead in the private sector is all about house paint.
Thank you again for all the info guys, If anybody has more to add please feel free.
PS: Work is slow in Maine, Just poking along, little stuff coming in.
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:50 PM   #11
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


does a lead abatment product help? Say such as Enviro prep. Sprayed 21 mils. hurry up with the answer
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:53 PM   #12
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


I also agree about calling the state but what do you do it is the law
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:59 AM   #13
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


I spent a lot of "quality time" in 2007 and early '08 with Cianbro when they stripped and repainted the Carlton Bridge. Because it was over the river, the agencies overseeing that were like an alphabet soup. Cianbro did major containment, vacuumed up the chips and dust, and had ENPRO Services Inc. haul away the drums. Filter respirators, fit tests, blood tests (baseline and periodic), and lots of white coveralls. I had to watch a video about lead exposure when I first started there, but otherwise didn't have any real involvement with lead protection.
They blasted with Black Beauty. Another company that worked on it had apparently used steel shot, and that left a helluva mess.
They must have had somebody within the company who signed off that the containment and everything was done to spec. I don't recall any gubmint people coming to visit, although there was supposedly an OSHA guy who lived right in town.
A lot of extra work involved, but they did a good job.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:04 PM   #14
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


B-Abbot you are the guy....The projects that you have been on in your album are so far and above the kind of contracting I do that I am In awe of you. I dont even understand why you take the time with us. I want to get some federal cash but the bidding is a tough one. I have jobs and will be okay, I need to learn waste water and petro-chemical to thrive.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:47 PM   #15
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson2414 View Post
B-Abbot you are the guy....The projects that you have been on in your album are so far and above the kind of contracting I do that I am In awe of you. I dont even understand why you take the time with us. I want to get some federal cash but the bidding is a tough one. I have jobs and will be okay, I need to learn waste water and petro-chemical to thrive.
For once I understand what panderson2414 is saying/explaining and agree!

I am in 'awe' as well - pretty amazing projects you have been part of or overseen. Thanks for sharing the pictures and explaining them in your photo album.
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:27 AM   #16
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Well Thanks for the compliments. I did not see that one coming. I have a ton more pictures that I would like to put up, but due to the sensitivity of the job site I can not post them for public view. I have done some work in the Nuclear Field and I cannot post those pics. I have to get special permission to take the pictures for my job file and I have to sign a form that I will not make them public. Anyway, I have been on a lot of interesting jobs. I have just went through the new NACE Nuclear Power Plant Coating Inspector Course, so as of now I am one of 25 in the world that holds that certification until the next class is held in Sept. One thing that I will say is to learn everything that you can about your trade. I try to get in on as many classes as I can. I instruct classes as well now. I love to teach people about the coatings industry. It is a passion that I have I guess. I really love my job. If anyone here needs any help, give me a call anytime. I do like to get paid for my work, but I do give a lot of information away. I tell people that it is hard to put a dollar figure on your work when you love doing it anyway. If you need some help, give me a call. If I don't have the answer I will find it if I can. Sorry for the long post.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:22 PM   #17
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Benny, I have a question about cathodics. I lost a customer this year because a floor in a 70' by 33' foot tank failed. The clay dike the tank sits on rusted the floor from the bottom up. We took out four inch sections of the tank in several different areas and concluded the floor needed replacement. I applied a phenolic epoxy inside the tank in 2000 Ameron 90 HS. The deal is the owners no longer belive that coating an interior makes sense and thay are going to throw in zinc bars and hope for the best. The workers at the site dont like this because it makes thier bi-anual clean up harder. The coated steel is easier to clean. Will the zinc bars provide adiquate protection? Is there an agrument for a new coating on thier floor? Does the clay these tank are on produce accelerated corosion? PA
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:46 PM   #18
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Sandblast guys,
here is an example of the kind of companies that I have worked for and have made me. Go to Hartung Bros .com and watch thier new video.
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Old 07-19-2009, 09:20 AM   #19
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


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Originally Posted by panderson2414 View Post
Benny, I have a question about cathodics. I lost a customer this year because a floor in a 70' by 33' foot tank failed. The clay dike the tank sits on rusted the floor from the bottom up. We took out four inch sections of the tank in several different areas and concluded the floor needed replacement. I applied a phenolic epoxy inside the tank in 2000 Ameron 90 HS. The deal is the owners no longer belive that coating an interior makes sense and thay are going to throw in zinc bars and hope for the best. The workers at the site dont like this because it makes thier bi-anual clean up harder. The coated steel is easier to clean. Will the zinc bars provide adiquate protection? Is there an agrument for a new coating on thier floor? Does the clay these tank are on produce accelerated corosion? PA

The Zinc Bars is only going to give protection in the area that the zinc bar is connected to. This will not give complete tank bottom protection. If they are going to replace the floor, then they should have a impressed current system done. This will give a much better bottom side protection.

Sounds like the customer has not been doing there API inspections properly. They are suppose to follow the API guide lines and have the tank bottom inspected on a schedule. Some people do not like to coat the tank bottoms due to it makes performing the API inspection harder, but they have the equipment to ping right thru the coating and see the layers in the steel plate. They can see if the corrosion is under the coating or on the plate underside. I have worked with HMT tank services a lot and they have a crew that does nothing but API Inspections. As far as coating the tank bottoms, they need to follow the API 652 Standard for the coating of petroleum tank bottoms for corrosion protection.

The Clay soil should not accelerate the corrosion at all. They might need to check and make sure that they don't have any dissimular metals attached to the tank that would be causing this corrosion. Tell them that they can give me a call anytime for input. I would really look at starting to line the tank bottoms with a polyurea system. It gives really good protection and last longer than a epoxy system.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:49 PM   #20
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Re: Lead Paint, What's Involved?


Benny,
I have talked to some suppliers of the polyurea systems. I think of them like the Rhino liners in my F-350 pick-ups. They work great and protect very well. but after a few years of abuse the box liners in these trucks has began to peel up and get cut through. The stuff is so tuff there is no way to blast it off and fix it or re-coat it. I compare it to a fiberglass floor, I have had to blast those floors off. One guy with a 135 psi no. 7 blast nozzle using 12/40 coal slag averages 30 square foot per hour. I agree that a polyurea floor has better return to service time and much better initial protection but once its usefull life has been expened how can it be repaired. If product gets under it the tensile stregth it has and monolithic values it portrays will, in my opion will accelerate corosion. Thanks for your input on the zinc bars. The ag companies I work for are not as fussy about inspection as the kind of companies you work for. The tanks say API 600 on the serial tags and that is as far as it gets. I have a very important meeting this week about a large plant I am currrently coating the outside of. This may take me out of just the mid-west. If they request third party inspection I may have them call you.

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