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Old 03-09-2017, 06:59 PM   #41
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Re: Sustainable


SPG @ #37: I think the increase in deaths by avalanche are entirely the result of massive improvements in snow machine technology allowing even the dumbest flatlanders to get to the death zones in # never seen before Hannibal's invasion of Roman Italy.


I think the Desire for world Government and massive taxes and of losses of individual freedoms and privileges occurred PRIOR to any actual CO2 forced AGW now nebulous "Climate change" arrived to fill the need for a massive "world ending apocalypse" to force the surrender of our hard fought for rights and wealth.

Climate change is just the nearly naked Magicians' helper to distract the Marks at the Magic show while their wallets are taken, and the shackles of Eco-Slavery installed.
"this way to the Egress and Eco-Serf Plantation"....

If the Earth is actually warming too fast,(hasn't happened Yet) in a few decades mankind will able to orbit "shades" stopping the excess energy at a fraction of any Carbon Free Nut case Economy costs mankind.

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Old 03-09-2017, 07:11 PM   #42
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Re: Sustainable


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Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
I think the increase in deaths by avalanche are entirely the result of massive improvements in snow machine technology allowing even the dumbest flatlanders to get to the death zones in # never seen before Hannibal's invasion of Roman Italy.
There's definitely more people out there in the backcountry on sleds, skis, and snowshoes. On the plus side, the avalanche safety tech has gotten a lot better over the past couple decades. If you're out in that stuff take a look at those new avalanche air bags.
I don't have the data, and I'm not in that field really anymore, so I don't know which way those numbers are going. I do know that the people I used to work with have been seeing more weird and extreme weather than ever before.


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I think the Desire for world Government and massive taxes and of losses of individual freedoms and privileges occurred PRIOR to any actual CO2 forced AGW now nebulous "Climate change" arrived to fill the need for a massive "world ending apocalypse" to force the surrender of our hard fought for rights and wealth.

Climate change is just the nearly naked Magicians' helper to distract the Marks at the Magic show while their wallets are taken, and the shackles of Eco-Slavery installed.
"this way to the Egress and Eco-Serf Plantation"....

If the Earth is actually warming too fast,(hasn't happened Yet) in a few decades mankind will able to orbit "shades" stopping the excess energy at a fraction of any Carbon Free Nut case Economy costs mankind.
...or instead of a vast conspiracy for unknown nefarious purposes, is it possible that all the pollutants, smoke, and other gasses that we've been pumping out over the past couple hundred years might just be having an effect on our environment?
I'm a little more likely to believe the data over a conspiracy theory.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:46 PM   #43
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Re: Sustainable


Any observed Fractal output data set has greater excursions and "extremes" as the data producer is observed over ever longer periods....
And at far greater intensity with robotic observers that never sleep through an event.

"or instead of a vast conspiracy for unknown nefarious purposes, is it possible that all the pollutants, smoke, and other gasses that we've been pumping out over the past couple hundred years might just be having an effect on our environment?
I'm a little more likely to believe the data over a conspiracy theory."

I'd be more likely to trust "data" that doesn't require me to be much poorer today and forever forward, and to have another layer of unelected government that can't removed without millions of dead people.

"climate Change", Smells like a Rat, looks like a Rat thief, and talks like a Nest of Rat Conspirators.

No volunteers to fight climate change, straight to the draft and mandatory bond purchases....How Democratic....
I'm NOT Eco-fodder.
I'm a Eco- Pacifist, and an American Firster on any Eco-Sharia faith based manure.

The USA is polluting a tiny fraction of its peak~1970.
Some informed scientists blame the coal clean up for our current 1 degree + excursion in temps.

the mass exodus from rural mostly out of door farming livelyhoods to indoors jobs and indoor childhoods has made modern peoples in general a very poor judges of "normal" weather and climate over decades and longer periods.


Prior to super cheap data flow, local weather disasters remained a page 24 event on most 12 page local papers... till 24 hr a day weather news monster started to seek ratings/$, and inflated every event as life threatening to watchers. A ticker tape parade of every tiny disaster world wide to achieve advertising income for "news" pimps.

FYI: the increase of 100ppms in CO2 levels the last 140 years is feeding over 1.25 billion people through increase food plant production, that would evaporate if we return to CO2 levels ante the carbon burning era.... That is 3 X the number of aborted PRChinese babies killed from 1982 to 2012, If would be the grand prize Genocide in Human history.

It is a power grabbing scam in short..

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Old 03-09-2017, 07:48 PM   #44
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Re: Sustainable


That's quite a word salad. What's your point?
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:11 PM   #45
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Re: Sustainable


I have had a lot of customers who express a strong desire to remodel using products that are green. I always make sure to inform them that there is no greener option than to not switch out the surfaces in their home. People don't like that. My opinion is that they are less interested in being green as they are fitting the image of being green. If a bunch of workers burning fuel and filling the landfill makes them happy, I will do it. I am not saying that no one is actually green. They just aren't the ones calling contractors to switch out their perfectly good floors.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:29 PM   #46
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Re: Sustainable


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I have had a lot of customers who express a strong desire to remodel using products that are green. I always make sure to inform them that there is no greener option than to not switch out the surfaces in their home. People don't like that.
Absolutely!
I get the same thing, but I guess in the end if they're going to make the changes and upgrades then they might as well go with the least worst option available. You can't call it beneficial to the environment, or "green", but if lessens the impact of making that upgrade then it's better than making the upgrade with something toxic and wasteful.
I'm not an eco nut, I drive a V8 pickup for work and love it, but I also really like walking to the store/restaurant/bar when it's not pouring rain. I try not to be wasteful, but I'm also not going to deny myself the simple pleasures in life over it either. There's a balance in there somewhere. We each just have to find the spot that makes us happy and gets the job done.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:16 PM   #47
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Re: Sustainable


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I didn't say it was, but from everything I've read on it I don't see any other good explanation. Track the rise of the human population and the industrial age and the carbon in the atmosphere and the global increase in temps all line up.


I'm not familiar with the globalist, but if you track the money on the denier side it all goes back to the heavy polluters like the oil industry. If you talk to the military they're not denying the climate is changing and they're actively making plans for it. I don't think the military has some other agenda when it comes to climate change.
So then, what temp is the earth suppose to be? Still waiting for your answer.

If you can't answer that you certainly can't tell me what it's not suppose to be.

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Old 03-09-2017, 09:22 PM   #48
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Re: Sustainable


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So then, what temp is the earth suppose to be? Still waiting for your answer.

If you can't answer that you certainly can't tell me what it's not suppose to be.
I don't have access to the thermostat. Someone in HR controls that.
But seriously, the temperature that it should be would be something like what it's been for the past couple thousand years. The last 50 or so it's been going up and the last 15 have all been the hottest ever. Obviously that's not right.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:03 PM   #49
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Re: Sustainable


When it became apparent that the globe wasn't warming, the new term 'climate change' was concocted to deal with the fact that the computer models weren't working.

Unfortunately science, like so much else in our world, has become politicized, with tremendous pressures put on scientists to come up with outcomes that match where their funding is coming from.

The last big headline on 'climate change' was when NOAA published the worrisome headline that 'the earth is warmer than ever' or words to that effect. When the actual data was looked at the ostensible rise in the temperature of the world was .001% or something along those lines, it was an absolutely meaningless number but was presented as proof that we're all going to cooked alive, boiled like lobsters!!

Regarding extreme weather, the norm is to have extreme weather events. Ever see the documentary on when the Chicago express train got stuck in the Sierras back in the 50s? They had to ski in to rescue them, the tracks were completely covered by so much snow that the massive snow clearing train mounted machinery couldn't cope with it.

We've had ice ages when there's been vastly more amounts of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere, and its carbon dioxide, not carbon. Carbon is a trick word put out by climate zealots as it conjures up images of black, sooty, pollution, not a gas that is consumed by plants.

If there is man made climate change occurring, something that is only a theory, there are vastly better ways to deal with it than to go with a government run, top down, extremely expensive and corrupt system.

BTW, this year in California is a la nina year, supposed to be dryer than usual. The way it's going the office of drought control is going to have to change to the office of flood management. If the weather meisters can't model weather six months out what makes anyone think they can do so 50 to 100 years out?
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:34 PM   #50
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Re: Sustainable


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I don't have access to the thermostat. Someone in HR controls that.

But seriously, the temperature that it should be would be something like what it's been for the past couple thousand years. The last 50 or so it's been going up and the last 15 have all been the hottest ever. Obviously that's not right.


2000 years is nothing. NOTHING! the earth is 6 billion. And the last 15 is like a grain of salt in the ocean.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:39 PM   #51
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Re: Sustainable


I'm all for breathing cleaner air. But don't turn us into a third world country doing it. It's about global control.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:11 AM   #52
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Re: Sustainable


Oh well, you got me. I'm part of the vast ecoglobal conspiracy working to enslave the world! But I can't pull one over on you and your cherry picked data points and keen sleuthing skills.
Look, I'm not a climate scientist and neither are you. I only popped on here at lunch on my office day for a quick distraction that's turned into a crapton of thread notification emails. That was fun while it lasted, but man! I'm surprised to find such complete climate change denialists! Really. The science on this stuff is pretty well established. The only place in the world where you find people who still deny that it is happening is here in the USA in places where people tend to skew conservative. Hmm. Now why is that? Are these people the only ones in the whole world who really know what the conspiracy is all about? Or could it be that the conservative movement is pretty good at getting messages from the top down that tend to support their corporate interests? Again, I'm not some Berkley liberal tree hugger who's trying to convince you to build your next house out of granola. Neither am I a fan of right wing hypocrite blowhards. Like most things in life there is a happy medium where the truth and a reasonable path forward can be found.
If we ignore all the hoopla over climate change, let's then look at what we would/could/should do as people all living on the same land. Burn more coal? Why would that be a good idea? It's nasty to get that stuff out of the ground, pollutes the hell out of the world and that pollution shortens everyone's life who lives downwind. It makes some money for the CEO's of coal companies and some dangerous underpaid jobs for miners but it's not doing anything great for you or me. We know how to get better cleaner energy in other ways so why would we push for burning more coal? Because some coal company CEOs gave a bunch of money to the GOP to push coal?
I'm all for cleaner air and I know we won't get it if we become a huge coal burning country like China. There's smart ways to do all this stuff. There's reality out there and then there's the political bs that keeps the CEOs pockets lined.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:03 AM   #53
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Re: Sustainable


SPG @ 48: FYI Temps haven't increase much in 19 years now, only after NASA and other Climate "Scientists" massages the the "raw" data sets to exhibit temperature increases for their Propaganda output.

The 1930s are still the decade with most of the top ten years for warmth. Durn Facts just don't conform to Eco-Nutter manias.

SPG @52:"Deniers" Are not asking any one to DO ANYTHING, only the green Nazis want to rule the World by invoking an imaginary Global threat to Mankind that requires everyone's spare cash and freedom, and their kids money and freedom too.

Who is more likely to lying to you? The person that wants to end Western technology that has laid the golden eggs of economic growth for centuries, Or the status Quo people, that want Faith based Memes keep out of our Governments at all levels, and not to add one that we can't leave with out a Huge world wide Civil War.

FYI: the coal mining jobs paid far more than the illegal Alien hiring Construction industry does or did, There aren't any rain days in coal mine genius. Far better to live 74 years free and wealthy than 75 years as drone in Eco-Commie land eating lard and bad bread after waiting in line.

The only thing coming out of an American coal burning plant is fly ashes sold for concrete, and water vapour + some CO2 to grow food with.
Quit lying on the InterNet please.

Those hard working coal CEOs work in industry that PAYS taxes and employees people without Welfare money from taxpayers, unlike solar and wind mill scams that cost consumers money every-time their on the grid and millions in tax to build that they will NEVER return.

From where I'm at you've taken a watermelon(green outside, commie red inside) colored D^&*o up in yea, and singing Eco-nutter lyrics for your lover. IMO

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