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Old 11-14-2018, 05:38 PM   #1
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Tankless


Hello all, I'm not sure if this should be posted here or in the electrical but I will try here first.

I'm thinking about putting an electric tankless water heater in to replace a 40Gal tank. In my previous house I had a natural gas tankless, loved it. Was very cheap to run, had no issues at all in close to 10 years and endless hot water.

I've been looking at this one https://www.gotankless.com/stiebel-e...tempra-24.html

it seems like a decent unit but hey I'm a painter so I need some expert input. Anybody had experience with this unit or if you have a recommendation please feel free. Thanks in advaance.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:50 PM   #2
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Re: Tankless


Electric tankless require a LOT of juice, is your panel adequate?

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Old 11-14-2018, 06:22 PM   #3
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Re: Tankless


I have 200...I should also say that it's just my wife and I so besides the hot water about the biggest draw at any time would be the AC a few lights, TV that kinda thing.

Last edited by carzie; 11-14-2018 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:01 PM   #4
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Re: Tankless


Are you all electric or do you have gas for your furnace, oven, etc... If you have gas go that route, if not as stated it takes a lot of juice - I would personally go with a Marathon water heater if running costs are an issue. If the issue is super long showers or huge tub then a larger unit

Make sure your unit is sized based on needed temperature rise & amount needed at worst case scenario (applies to gas & electric)
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:48 PM   #5
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Re: Tankless


That's 100A at 240V

Their sheet gives flow rate st 105F output, most people would want it hotter than that. You may not like how this performs in the winter.

Panel requirements to meet code doesn't depend on your personal usage habits. No way are you going to br able to use your 200A panel, IMO.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:39 PM   #6
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Re: Tankless


Electric tank less is probably the least efficient form of heating water I know of, as opposed to tanked electric, which is more efficient than gas, but still less practical. And in most areas it is also more expensive to operate.

That being said, hot water is over rated.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:12 AM   #7
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Re: Tankless


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Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpider View Post
Electric tank less is probably the least efficient form of heating water I know of, as opposed to tanked electric, which is more efficient than gas, but still less practical. And in most areas it is also more expensive to operate.

That being said, hot water is over rated.
How is the efficiency any different?
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:52 AM   #8
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Re: Tankless


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How is the efficiency any different?
Itís the amount of energy that goes to actually heating the water. In Electric tank units itís 99% efficiency. Only problem is electric is way more expensive than nat gas. Plus they never talk about what it takes to generate that electricity.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:56 AM   #9
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Re: Tankless


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Itís the amount of energy that goes to actually heating the water. In Electric tank units itís 99% efficiency. Only problem is electric is way more expensive than nat gas. Plus they never talk about what it takes to generate that electricity.
So a tankless transfers a bunch of heat to things other than the water? Like the room it's in?

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Old 11-15-2018, 08:15 AM   #10
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
So a tankless transfers a bunch of heat to things other than the water? Like the room it's in?

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No, tankless has to be able to heat water that is flowing and raise that temperature as much as required to get the desired output temp.

A tank heater has all the time in the world, with a captive volume, to raise the temp.


Think of it this way: If you had to take tap water and raise it to 110 degrees in a pot on your stove, and add water at tap temps, and draw hot water, how much heat would it take? Lots and lots.

Last efficient build we did, the guy spent the money for the smart controller and the Marathon water heater. It basically sets up the heater to be hot when needed and idle the other 22 hours a day.

Smart.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:19 AM   #11
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Re: Tankless


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Originally Posted by Joasis View Post
No, tankless has to be able to heat water that is flowing and raise that temperature as much as required to get the desired output temp.

A tank heater has all the time in the world, with a captive volume, to raise the temp.


Think of it this way: If you had to take tap water and raise it to 110 degrees in a pot on your stove, and add water at tap temps, and draw hot water, how much heat would it take? Lots and lots.

Last efficient build we did, the guy spent the money for the smart controller and the Marathon water heater. It basically sets up the heater to be hot when needed and idle the other 22 hours a day.

Smart.
So a tankless electric is very efficient?

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Old 11-15-2018, 08:31 AM   #12
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
So a tankless electric is very efficient?

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From a website


Efficiency Life-Cycle Cost
Conventional Gas Storage Tank 55% $2,544
Conventional Electric Storage Tank 90% $5,495
High-Efficiency Gas Storage Tank 62% $2,385
High-Efficiency Electric Storage Tank 94% $5,362
Gas Tankless 70% $2,243
Electric Tankless 100. . % $5,590
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:34 AM   #13
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Johnson View Post
From a website


EfficiencyLife-Cycle Cost
Conventional Gas Storage Tank 55%$2,544
Conventional Electric Storage Tank90%$5,495
High-Efficiency Gas Storage Tank62%$2,385
High-Efficiency Electric Storage Tank94%$5,362
Gas Tankless 70%$2,243
Electric Tankless100. . %$5,590
So it's the most efficient.

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Old 11-15-2018, 08:36 AM   #14
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
So it's the most efficient.

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According to that website. It also has the highest cost.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:06 AM   #15
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
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According to that website. It also has the highest cost.
This isn't complicated. Being the most efficient isn't always a good thing.

If electric is your only option and you want endless hot water, then there are few other options.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:08 AM   #16
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joasis View Post
Last efficient build we did, the guy spent the money for the smart controller and the Marathon water heater. It basically sets up the heater to be hot when needed and idle the other 22 hours a day.

Smart.
Timers don't gain you much, since thermal losses through a tank jacket are only 6%.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:08 AM   #17
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
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So a tankless electric is very efficient?

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Sure...I suppose.

The DOE published a bunch of stuff about how we should all go tankless to save energy....and the companies that build the units tout their perfect efficiency, but as pointed out, it takes a LOT of energy to heat the water, and if you have multiple points of use, like a 5 bedroom home with 4 baths and 3 showers going, someone isn't going to be happy.

I have said before, and I believe it today, how water is the worst waste in any home...we heat water 24/7 for an hour at most of use on most days. The smart controller can "learn" a home energy demand, and can adjust having hot water to match the demand time....now that is efficient. Of course, the problem remains what about a late night shower, or an unexpected load of laundry....well...most people don't think about how much it costs for the convenience of having hot water when they want it.

So in a family environment,....I would go with a high efficiency electric 50 gallon, and if I was in a small home with just 2 people, a tankless, if I could afford it.

I have built over 120 homes in the last 15 years, and we have installed 2 of the tankless.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:15 AM   #18
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Re: Tankless


Natural gas is cheap here so if it’s available you use it. I can keep hot water available 24/7 for less than $20/month. That’s a bargain. Tank or tankless.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:19 AM   #19
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Re: Tankless


In Europe they like to have point of use tankless. Tiny ones for the sink, the shower heater is actually in the shower. No pipe losses, no waiting. It's not a bad system.

I know I waste tons of water and gas waiting for my poorly piped house to get hot water to the end use.
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Old 11-15-2018, 01:04 PM   #20
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Re: Tankless


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Johnson View Post
According to that website. It also has the highest cost.
Not so sure if understand the math on that lol.

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