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Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??

 
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:59 PM   #1
 
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Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


Was thinking of plumbing my new house as I cant find a plumber wanting to do it & they all are so backed up & others lie..I had one guy scheduled to do it then he keeps putting it off then hes gonna sub it out.got to much so I ran him off..another one I have called but no return call..other one I have talked to but wants to see plans but wont come look at the actual house as the hose is differnt from plans now..So anyways now you see why I want to plumb it myself..I have plumbed several flip & rental houses but I didnt have to do codes..plumbing worked great too..as for mine now..I have to pass codes..is there any info out there to give me some tips on what not to do or to do for codes..like a quick run down..having troble finding anything..would you takle this yourself or keep searching for plumbers..oh yeah one guy wanted 2000 just to rough in (with copper to) for a 2 full bath 2 half bath house..on full bath & laundry room is above master bath also..like I said any info would be greatly appreciated..im in goodlettsville,tennessee..sumner county..I think they go by plumbers 2000 code if that sounds right
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:14 PM   #2
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


Quote:
Originally Posted by national View Post
Was thinking of plumbing my new house as I cant find a plumber wanting to do it & they all are so backed up & others lie..I had one guy scheduled to do it then he keeps putting it off then hes gonna sub it out.got to much so I ran him off..another one I have called but no return call..other one I have talked to but wants to see plans but wont come look at the actual house as the hose is differnt from plans now..So anyways now you see why I want to plumb it myself..I have plumbed several flip & rental houses but I didnt have to do codes..plumbing worked great too..as for mine now..I have to pass codes..is there any info out there to give me some tips on what not to do or to do for codes..like a quick run down..having troble finding anything..would you takle this yourself or keep searching for plumbers..oh yeah one guy wanted 2000 just to rough in (with copper to) for a 2 full bath 2 half bath house..on full bath & laundry room is above master bath also..like I said any info would be greatly appreciated..im in goodlettsville,tennessee..sumner county..I think they go by plumbers 2000 code if that sounds right
I couldn't even buy the materials to plumb a house that size for $2,000!!! I can't help you with the rest. Here in Massachusetts, only a licensed plumber can pull a permit; a homeowner cannot. And I don't know too many guys that will "rent" their licenses out to just anyone.

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Old 03-27-2007, 06:43 AM   #3
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


sorry..I was buying materials that was labor only which is why I thought it was high..Yes you can pull a homeowner permeit on plumbing at least here in tennessee..you can pull everything to do with a house under a homeowner permit electrical & all..back to the subject..doesnt that sound high for labor only or is that about right?
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:55 AM   #4
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


"...doesnt that sound high for labor only or is that about right?"

I don't know about Tennessee. I couldn't survive on rates like that up here; I also don't plumb a house unless I supply all the materials and fixtures. What's in it for anybody to work for labor alone?!?!?
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:17 AM   #5
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


National, you may be causing your own problems.

Plans don't match whats built. Around here that would fail inspection. You must submit all modifications for approval and the approved plans must match the constrtucted work.

There is nothing for a plumber to bid on. You said the house doesn't match the plans. So what construction documents would the contract refer to?

It's hard working for someone like you. You think you know but you don't. You say you didn't need to follow codes on your flips. Actually, you did. You just didn't know you did so you ignored the law, and that could come back and bite you in the ass. There is no statute of limitations on code violations.

Supplying materials for someone else to do a rough-in is a problem waiting to happen. A plumber will have a large variety of fittings available that he won't use. Most likely you won't have these so when he needs something it won't be there.

Your house is a one time deal. With real contractors there is the potential for continuing work. That has value so the plumber will always put the builder first. Better service, better price.

Many on this board have worked for owner builders and can attest to what I say. Owner/builders can be a pain in the ass. Because they are not intimately familiar with the process there are a series of problems. Subs get scheduled improperly. There is inadequate space for proper installation. Payment can be slow or sporatic. The owner may demand changes or additional work not shown on the plans.


You will find that, unless the market is really slow, it may be difficult to get an experienced and skilled plumber to do your job. If it was me, I'd walk.
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:32 PM   #6
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


thom>>> tennessee law on existing houses here is you dont have to have a permit for anything inside the original foundation unless its upgrading an electrical box from 100-200 amp service..I know..I have asked several times..I came on this board to ask a question to how to screw someone..the guys I have talked to around here have all there special fittings..I am to buy only main sticks of PVC & copper they supply all else...Yes I am a owner/builder but that doesnt make me a pain in the ass because Im questioning someones 2000 labor for 2 days of work does it??
Plan looks similar in size but restrooms have been added & master tub reloacated.. nothing big but doesnt match up to bid off of im sure..shower will have 2 sprayes instead of one..alot of people around here build custom homes without plans..you just have to apply for it when you get your permit to build..I guess we just got it easy here.. again 1000 a day for a plumber Im def in the wrong buisness..I have a used car lot & heating & air buisness & neither one makes that kind of money..good luck in your future buisness
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:21 PM   #7
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


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thom>>> ...but that doesnt make me a pain in the ass because Im questioning someones 2000 labor for 2 days of work does it??
Roughing 2 full baths, 2 half baths, kitchen and laundry connection is 2 days worth of work?!?!?!?
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:07 PM   #8
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


are they 48 hr days. I do alot of work in boston. for 2 fulls ,2 halfs, laundry and kitchen with no gas work and no fixtures, this price is for rough materials , finish materials and labor. $13,900. Ill land that 80 to 90% of the time..
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:14 PM   #9
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


That guy must be in la la land. I guess he is using a garden hose for drain lines because you wont ever find a plumber to rough in your palace in 2 days with real plumbing pipe. I wouldnt touch your job for under 14000 here in Pgh Pa and that is if you actually knew what you were doing as a contractor. Since you are a homeowner/builder, I know enough to stay as far away from the likes of your kind. Nothing but a pain in the A... Dont know what goes in what order, and never make any mistakes, and always saying; since your there would you do me this one favor, over and over again, and then get upset when you get a bill for 2 days worth of work from; since your there would you do me this one favor. Good luck on your previous work, like the man said, no statue of limitations on code violations. Sometimes just when you think you have it made, your past comes up to bite you in the ass because you didnt want to hire and pay for a pro to do the work. Thought the price was to high, or that all the 5 years of school and the 10,000 hours of apprenticeship wasnt worth more than the $10 an hr you were offering. Good luck on your new house, hope you can find enough garden hose in the right size for your job. Hope you will like what you get for what your offering.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:20 PM   #10
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


Hire A Pro....you Would'nt Operate On Yourself Would You?
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:41 PM   #11
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


Hey Para1 you should have seen the look on my dentists face when he found out I have been doing my own dental work. I'm thinking of a vasectomy next week you bring the beer and I'll bring the pex crimpers, razor and torch.
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:24 PM   #12
 
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2 plumber ...o.k. I NEED A VASECTOMY MY WIFE'S COUSIN HAS A FRIEND THAT KNOWS SOMEONE THAT CAN ..GETTERDONE.
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Old 07-11-2007, 07:52 PM   #13
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


To answer your question about code, find out what code they use in your area and get the illustrated version of the respective code book.

Now as for the price, that's better than I would charge my mother. It's like $1500 a fixture around here for a custom rough job and that is what it is when you don't have a real plan or specs.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:25 PM   #14
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


Hay national,

Don't take it the wrong way, we as plumbers work hard in our field, we do sh*t work thats others would never dream of doing. Right now I'm working on a house a homeowner tried to do himself, calls us in the fix what he has screwed up, yep, you guessed it right, were cutting out and replacing just about all he has done, you should see all the code violations, too many to list. So maybe it's not that you can't find a plumber, maybe your trying to get something done cheap and we pro's don't work that way. Me, I maybe different they others on here, if you were in may code area, I might give you the advise your wanting, but I'd waste my time telling you how it is here, and it will not be how it gets done there.

Best of Luck.

P.S, Don't give up hope, keep calling for plumbers for help, and if it cost you more then you think it should, then so be it, pay the price and get it done right.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:46 PM   #15
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


I have been around renovations for 20 plus years and still would not even think of trying to rough in a house myself, there are way too many quirks in the code for you to stand any chance of successfull inspections, assumming that you could even get the permit, because as someone said, I have not known any minicipalities that allow permitted DIY plumbing.

If my plumber did that work for the price you stated, I would buy him as many steak dinners as he wanted for the duration of the job, and wash his truck every Friday at knock off time.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:22 PM   #16
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


HELP!
I've fallen and I can't get up!
This is the funniest thread I've seen here yet.
I'll wager ANY money this guy is looking for someone...anyone to rationalize his magical profit margins.
I've been getting more and more requests from "Harry the happy homeowner" who watches one too many episodes of "flip that house" and decides he's gonna make millions overnight.
Did a complete remodel last year in Boston for a woman who insisted she could persuade the inspector to let most of her existing plumbing slide, despite my warnings.
She gave me a hard time over every last penny, yet when it came time for finish, she bought the most extravagant stock she could find.
She decided to argue with the inspector at the inspection, he looked at me amazed...I shrugged with a silly smirk and he understood.
I'd made a point of mentioning any additional work would be extra on the contract.
It was extra.
Very extra.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:43 PM   #17
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


Just pickup a basic plumbers book from the library. If for some reason you come across something you cant figure out, ask one of the plumbers with 10,000 hour apprenticeships under their belt.

It's basic plumbing, no matter what these guys might want you to think, it's not complex.

I'm sure these guys are right about the amount of work and materials it will take though so don't think this is something you'll get done on a saturday, sunday.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:32 PM   #18
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


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Just pickup a basic plumbers book from the library. If for some reason you come across something you cant figure out, ask one of the plumbers with 10,000 hour apprenticeships under their belt.

It's basic plumbing, no matter what these guys might want you to think, it's not complex.

I'm sure these guys are right about the amount of work and materials it will take though so don't think this is something you'll get done on a saturday, sunday.
Are you kidding me?
Just go pick up a book - It's not complex.......

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about or what it takes to plumb a house.

"Was thinking of plumbing my new house as I cant find a plumber wanting to do it "

Sure it's simple.....I mean it's just a few pipes right?
You get the De-de dee award for the day.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:18 AM   #19
 
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


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Are you kidding me?
Just go pick up a book - It's not complex.......

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about or what it takes to plumb a house.

"Was thinking of plumbing my new house as I cant find a plumber wanting to do it "

Sure it's simple.....I mean it's just a few pipes right?
You get the De-de dee award for the day.
You're right. Plumbing is very similar to rocket science. After about a decade of education and another decade of internship he might be able to rough-in a bathroom.

Realistically It will probably take him 8x longer to do his first bathroom, 3x longer to do the second bathroom, and 2x as long to do the kitchen than it would for you professionals. Then he might have to redo the first bathroom.

To say a handy guy can't plumb his own house?
De-de dee
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:54 AM   #20
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Re: Plumbing Codes Question For New Construction??


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Im questioning someones 2000 labor for 2 days of work
Lets get real here, 2 days 2000 labor

Lets just say a plumber will charge out $90 per hour, (and not to mention if he has an apprentice who helps out that price goes up,) which is an average around here, how thats less then 23 hours of labor work, a little more then 11 hours a day.

Now you do the math, you got a bargain at 2000.

So don't go looking for a plumber that is only going to charge you out at 45 per hour, cause you won't find one.

A bid is a bid, you pay what is asked, if it takes us longer then we thought then we eat time, if it flows smoothly, and takes less then we thought. we make a little profit. It's it wanting to make a profit what it's about, no one just wants to break even, if one only breaks even everytime, then it's time to close the doors.

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