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Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?

 
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:07 PM   #101
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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I remember when guys were bitching about plastic waste lines as well. No way a glued fitting is better than lead and oakum....

It isn't.

There are plenty of one hundred year old buildings that are still using the original cast iron waste and vent stacks, but you will never see a plastic waste and vent stack last that long, the material itself is self destructive due to the expansion and contraction properties.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:28 PM   #102
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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It isn't.

There are plenty of one hundred year old buildings that are still using the original cast iron waste and vent stacks, but you will never see a plastic waste and vent stack last that long, the material itself is self destructive due to the expansion and contraction properties.
That may be true, yet, for the most part, cast iron has gone by the wayside. Forget the lead and oakum, even with the simplicity of no-hubs.

There are many factors that define "better".

In todays world, price and speed of installation have a direct bearing on whether or not you can be profitable. Anything that lowers cost, while maintaining satisfactory results is considered "better" by most, including me. The majority of the population can't afford to install luxuries in their mechanical systems, or any other building component for that matter.

When OSB hit the market, it was shunned by all but the most frugal of builders, yet, over time, it has become more and more accepted and in my opinion, superior on many counts than plywood.

Times change, accepted norms change and for better or worse, we must change with them.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:32 PM   #103
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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It isn't.

There are plenty of one hundred year old buildings that are still using the original cast iron waste and vent stacks, but you will never see a plastic waste and vent stack last that long, the material itself is self destructive due to the expansion and contraction properties.
This is totally unfounded information not based on any facts whatsoever.

First off PVC hasn't been used in homes for a hundred years yet. I have done hundreds of service calls on CI failing. Ask all the HO's that I vist a few times a year to cut out roots from the sewer lines if they would like PVC. Ask all the HO's that I charge thousands of dollars to rip out the CI that's half that age because it's collapsing.

PVC pipe has been a blessing to not just plumbers but to HO's as well. CI has many good merits but it falls short when compared to the merits of PVC.

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Old 01-16-2011, 01:35 PM   #104
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Crazy how many areas dont use pex. I havent seen a copper run house in over 10 years. The only copper is the wall stubs for toilet and sinks, and sometimes there pex to. I think the stuff is gold.
I'm plumbing a big mansion in copper right now because the HO requested it. I'm making a ton of money from it because of all the extra labor he is paying for. I like both because I can make any customer from any walk of life happy.


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Old 01-16-2011, 01:37 PM   #105
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Anything that lowers cost, while maintaining satisfactory results is considered "better" by most, including me.
Only thing is, somewhere along the line "satisfactory" got a new meaning. I really doubt that the majority of new houses I see being built today are going to last 100 years. At least not without a lot of surgical intervention over that time.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:39 PM   #106
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


What I really hate is the fact that I have to own a big massive truck to carry all the fittings from every type of material. It's a PIA, I would love to just have one type, at one point I had 3 different type of pex crimping tools.

Now throw in ProPress and I have to be fully stocked with 7 different piping systems.

Crazy in it's own right.

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Old 01-16-2011, 01:41 PM   #107
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Only thing is, somewhere along the line "satisfactory" got a new meaning. I really doubt that the majority of new houses I see being built today are going to last 100 years. At least not without a lot of surgical intervention over that time.
And when the surgical intervention happens PEX will be a whole lot easier and cheaper to replace.

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Old 01-16-2011, 01:59 PM   #108
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


True. But my gut tells me (without bothering with things like facts) that barring nasty water, copper pipes will last longer than Pex.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:00 PM   #109
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Only thing is, somewhere along the line "satisfactory" got a new meaning. I really doubt that the majority of new houses I see being built today are going to last 100 years. At least not without a lot of surgical intervention over that time.
You can blame insulation for most of that debacle, assuming the structure is properly engineered and assembled.
Use todays building practices, minus insulation and most issues with failing structures would be eliminated, IMO.

Ventilation and "breathability" is the key to avoiding most of the problems associated with moisture in todays homes. Insulation is ventilations arch enemy.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:06 PM   #110
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
That may be true, yet, for the most part, cast iron has gone by the wayside. Forget the lead and oakum, even with the simplicity of no-hubs.

We still install hub and spigot cast iron with lead joints in Chicago, no hub is not code approved.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:08 PM   #111
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
Ventilation and "breathability" is the key to avoiding most of the problems associated with moisture in todays homes. Insulation is ventilations arch enemy.
Preaching to the choir.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:22 PM   #112
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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And when the surgical intervention happens PEX will be a whole lot easier and cheaper to replace.

Mike
This to me is the problem with Pex and a few construction materials and processes.

When we build or remodel it is suppose to last, I don't want to build and think that when something goes wrong, it will be easier to fix..

If I am worrying about fixing or repairing it down the road, then it should not have been installed in the first place.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:29 PM   #113
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
True. But my gut tells me (without bothering with things like facts) that barring nasty water, copper pipes will last longer than Pex.
Assuming the installer reamed the pipe, didn't over flux, wiped the joint, didn't flare the cut by overtightening the tubing cutter, cleaned the mating surfaces....
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:55 PM   #114
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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This to me is the problem with Pex and a few construction materials and processes.

When we build or remodel it is suppose to last, I don't want to build and think that when something goes wrong, it will be easier to fix..

If I am worrying about fixing or repairing it down the road, then it should not have been installed in the first place.
Plumbing will never be the reason a house is torn down.

BUT, plastic has one big advantage in this department. For the last few years that's all I hear college kids, teachers, and activists complain about is how plastic in the landfills lasts 1,000,000 years.

If that's true what about a product that's meant to last, designed to last? PEX that's installed today will be alive and kicking many times longer than any house is good for.

Like I said, crappy construction standards is never a water supply line to a fixture. Consumers want cheap they get cheap, they want the best they get the best.....both parties have to pay for what they want.

Many multi-million dollar homes prefer PEX, it's just a fact.

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:56 PM   #115
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
Assuming the installer reamed the pipe, didn't over flux, wiped the joint, didn't flare the cut by overtightening the tubing cutter, cleaned the mating surfaces....
AND...assuming it's sized right because if it's not copper will not last.

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:58 PM   #116
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


This thread has almost reached borderline stupid.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:22 PM   #117
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Old 01-17-2011, 05:33 PM   #118
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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In IL what they are doing is against the law unless it is in their own house.

It is the same here in Arkansas and it has to be their main residence not rent property.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:45 PM   #119
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Tell the customer that the product is not code approved in northern IL and if they want it installed they have to pull their own permit and install it themselves.
We have walked away from many jobs that the client wanted PEX installed.

PEX maybe a superior product, but I am still not convinced and don't tell me it has been being used in Europe for 20 or 30 years. Poly also had a proven track record overseas, but look at teh mess it got us into over here.

So NO thank you, we will be installing copper or we won't do the job.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:56 PM   #120
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Re: Pex... Best Thing Since Sliced Bread?


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Originally Posted by Electric_Light View Post
Copper ions are potent bactericide. When copper corrodes, the products go right into the water it is carrying and it isn't exactly good for you, nor is it good for the environment.
http://www.sanjoseca.gov/esd/PDFs/cu...lers_05_03.pdf

Fact:
PEX is impervious to almost everything. It is not attacked by concentrated hydrofluoric acid which attacks glass.
Just a few things Pex is not impervious to

Do not spray on or allow organic chemicals, pesticides, strong acids or
strong bases to come into contact with Uponor PEX.
Do not use petroleum or solvent-based paints on Uponor PEX.
Use only approved and appropriate firestop materials with Uponor PEX.
Do not allow rodents, insects or other pests to come into contact with
Uponor PEX tubing.
Do not subject Uponor

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