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Fixing The "low Bid"

 
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:21 AM   #21
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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Ditto here......that was the first thing I thought when I saw those pictures. Around here those trenches would have to be backfilled with rock all the way to the top, and the asphalt would have to be "T cut" in order to leave a ledge on both sides. Then they would have to hit it for compaction tests not to be less than 95%. Looks like a fun job Day

same over here too, evrything thats under ashphalt HAS to be backfilled with stone/granular material , we call it MOT type 1, which i guess is the same as your DOT?
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:07 AM   #22
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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thought you guys might like to see a pic of the sag. we never touched the elevation of the pipe shown here at all...all we did was dig along both sides, and bring rock back up so we had a decent/dry place to stand and work. we had to wait for ins. adjusters to show up and take pics for the church.
OSHA would be very happy to write some large fines for that.
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:29 AM   #23
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


I agree

Not sure if I have ever seen a trench box in any of Day's pics
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:20 AM   #24
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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I agree

Not sure if I have ever seen a trench box in any of Day's pics
You do not need shoring with the proper benching that has been used in the pictures. The trenches do not look to be much deepr than 6 feet, and with the width of the cut, and slope on the banks he is legal. Only issue I see is the ladder is a good distance from the hoe, but no one is in the bank, and the picture may throw the perception of distance off
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Old 07-03-2010, 10:24 AM   #25
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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You do not need shoring with the proper benching that has been used in the pictures. The trenches do not look to be much deepr than 6 feet, and with the width of the cut, and slope on the banks he is legal. Only issue I see is the ladder is a good distance from the hoe, but no one is in the bank, and the picture may throw the perception of distance off
OSHA would disagree with you on that.

BTW the ladder is too short.

Benching is not proper according to the pictures posted.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/otm_v/otm_v_2.html#8

Last edited by bwalley; 07-03-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 07-03-2010, 09:57 PM   #26
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


i'm quite sure bwally and shaper's jobsite would be without any violations and 100% compliant in OSHA's eyes at any given time...anyway you compliance furcks....here's a couple of pics of our box. i've probably walked more miles underground than you've driven over...i've no doubt forgot more about the underground biz than you'll ever know...go preach somewhere else
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:05 AM   #27
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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i'm quite sure bwally and shaper's jobsite would be without any violations and 100% compliant in OSHA's eyes at any given time...anyway you compliance furcks....here's a couple of pics of our box. i've probably walked more miles underground than you've driven over...i've no doubt forgot more about the underground biz than you'll ever know...go preach somewhere else
Your previous picture showed blatant violations, OSHA defines those as willful violations.

My current truck has over 200k miles on it, I doubt you have walked that much.

Yes you may know more about underground utilities than I do, but that does not mean you do things correctly.

BP knows more than I do about drilling for oil and look at the mess we are in right now because of their haphazard work.

It is funny you complain about the lowballer, yet you are showing pictures of your unsafe workplace.

Here is a link discussing fines that an underground contractor recieved for willful violations, I am sure he forgot more about underground utility work than I will ever know.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0391.html

Problem with doing something where you think you know everything is you get complacent, BP is a good example.

Maybe your problem is you forgot the important things such as how to have a safe work environment for your employees as well as the people standing around watching what you are doing.



Last edited by bwalley; 07-04-2010 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:24 AM   #28
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


You guys really gonna get in a pissing match, here, today?
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:48 AM   #29
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


Do I need some popcorn?

Some people on here are just nit pickers and are scared to show there own work.

Looks good to me day, I would go in that trench. We have to do the gravel thing here as well under the road, filler up.

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Old 07-04-2010, 08:59 AM   #30
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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You guys really gonna get in a pissing match, here, today?
what's more american than a good old-fashioned pissing contest?
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:32 AM   #31
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


Pizza and Beer are on me guys!! Hope you all have a happy 4th of July!!!
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:17 AM   #32
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


Anyone else notice the ads on the first page? Both ads brag that they are cheap, no mention of quality, just cheap.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:13 AM   #33
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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You guys really gonna get in a pissing match, here, today?
The guy shows unsafe work practices and he got called on it.

I went through some of his other pictures after shaper made a comment about him not using a trench box and it appears he puts his men in jeapoardy on other jobs as well.

He may get away with it but when it collapses, it could kill or hurt some people.

BP used to get away with haphazard work, now we have a mess in the GOM and people are dead and losing their business' because of unsafe and unsound work practices.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:32 AM   #34
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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The guy shows unsafe work practices and he got called on it.

I went through some of his other pictures after shaper made a comment about him not using a trench box and it appears he puts his men in jeapoardy on other jobs as well.

He may get away with it but when it collapses, it could kill or hurt some people.
You show us those unsafe work practices. In the pictures without a box, the trench is cut in a legal manner. The bottom 4 feet is vertical, from 4 feet on up, proper sloping techniques are used. The only issues that can be seen are 1 a ladder that is too short, but there is also no one in the trench. 2 water in the excavation, which automatically makes it a class c trench, which requires more sloping. Both those issues show no one in the trench. From what I can see, the excavation was made, pipe issues were corrected in a dry trench, and while waiting for inspection, ground water has worked its way into the trench.

I have been in a lot worse trenches than anything day has pictured. 99.9% of them I was comfortable with. There have been a few hairy ones that I have been around. Point being, from an Excavation Competent Person, according to OSHA, these trenches are fine. So you can stick to your: Trade: Certified Building and Certified A/C Contractor, and us dirt dobbers will keep doing what we do best.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:46 AM   #35
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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You show us those unsafe work practices. In the pictures without a box, the trench is cut in a legal manner. The bottom 4 feet is vertical, from 4 feet on up, proper sloping techniques are used. The only issues that can be seen are 1 a ladder that is too short, but there is also no one in the trench. 2 water in the excavation, which automatically makes it a class c trench, which requires more sloping. Both those issues show no one in the trench. From what I can see, the excavation was made, pipe issues were corrected in a dry trench, and while waiting for inspection, ground water has worked its way into the trench.

I have been in a lot worse trenches than anything day has pictured. 99.9% of them I was comfortable with. There have been a few hairy ones that I have been around. Point being, from an Excavation Competent Person, according to OSHA, these trenches are fine. So you can stick to your: Trade: Certified Building and Certified A/C Contractor, and us dirt dobbers will keep doing what we do best.
That thing is not benched properly, I am just a Certified Building contractor and can tell that by looking at the pictures.


here is another one of his jobs that is a hazard.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f88/i-hate-mud-43549/

If you think that is safe, wait until OSHA shows up and shuts you guys down, or fines you after you kill someone for unsafe work practices.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:55 AM   #36
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


How do you know that they weren't properly set up and when the pics were taken the safety devices were removed?
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:01 PM   #37
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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How do you know that they weren't properly set up and when the pics were taken the safety devices were removed?
I am going bt what is in the picture's and he said it was benched properly (Which it isn't), he also has a kid close to the edge of the trench in a picture and he doesn't have barricades or fencing in it, only in part of it.

I wouldn't allow that on any of my jobsites.
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:38 PM   #38
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


I’m providing the popcorn AND the beer cole82 please enjoy. Myself, I’m having a slice of humble pie…..little did I know until bwalley and shaper pointed it out….that myself and my family “in biz since 47”….have had a innate desire to injure and kill our employees. Not being a “certified building contractor”, whatever that means…I apparently haven’t the knowledge, or must subconsciously wish to blatantly put myself, and my employees in harm’s way. I felt so bad about this this morning, as I was leaving church…I asked my clergy person if I could have confession. He said, you’re Lutheran, get the heck outta here. But I digress…
I’m confident that being a certified building contractor… you take at least the minimum measures dictated by OSHA and other governing entities within your jurisdiction and that being a certified building contractor, that there wouldn’t even be a remote possibility of an accident happening on any of your jobsites. As you can see and have pointed out, my violations are blatant, and have been nothing short of “bloody luck” that there’ve been no injuries on my jobsites. It must give you a sigh of relief and a heart full of satisfaction nobody would have the ability to critique your jobsites and deem them in a bad light safety wise.
I’ve come to the conclusion that in my learning and healing process, that it would be very helpful if certified building contractors such as yourself, would post pictures, and examples of your jobsites and the safety programs implemented, so I could learn by your example…
Respectfully yours
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:47 PM   #39
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


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I’m providing the popcorn AND the beer cole82 please enjoy. Myself, I’m having a slice of humble pie…..little did I know until bwalley and shaper pointed it out….that myself and my family “in biz since 47”….have had a innate desire to injure and kill our employees. Not being a “certified building contractor”, whatever that means…I apparently haven’t the knowledge, or must subconsciously wish to blatantly put myself, and my employees in harm’s way. I felt so bad about this this morning, as I was leaving church…I asked my clergy person if I could have confession. He said, you’re Lutheran, get the heck outta here. But I digress…
I’m confident that being a certified building contractor… you take at least the minimum measures dictated by OSHA and other governing entities within your jurisdiction and that being a certified building contractor, that there wouldn’t even be a remote possibility of an accident happening on any of your jobsites. As you can see and have pointed out, my violations are blatant, and have been nothing short of “bloody luck” that there’ve been no injuries on my jobsites. It must give you a sigh of relief and a heart full of satisfaction nobody would have the ability to critique your jobsites and deem them in a bad light safety wise.
I’ve come to the conclusion that in my learning and healing process, that it would be very helpful if certified building contractors such as yourself, would post pictures, and examples of your jobsites and the safety programs implemented, so I could learn by your example…
Respectfully yours


Being a Certified Building contractor means I passed a 2 day 19 hour exam given by the state of Florida, one of the area's we were extensively tested on was compliance with OSHA regulations and workplace safety, and trench work was part of it.

These are area's that were also covered in my Certified Plumbing Contractors exam.

In Florida each trade has to be licensed and part of that is proving we know what we are doing.

Just because you have always done it that way does not mean it is legal or safe,it is just you have been lucky no one was hurt in one of your trenches, I am sure you don't want anyone to get hurt, but they can.

I will take pictures of my jobsite tommorow for you, I have some on my camera I will put up later after I come back from a cookout.

I will also post pictures when the service to te building is installed as well as the fireline.
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:55 PM   #40
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Re: Fixing The "low Bid"


Florida and wherever the hell Dayexco is from (please fill in your area) might have totally different rules for how the site needs to be setup for safety.

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