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Building Code For 2 Story Commercial

 
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Old 01-23-2011, 09:53 PM   #1
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Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


my fire company is planning on building a new building and want to make it 2 floors what is required for the building (I.E. elevator, wheelchair ramp) the onlything up stairs will be an office, exercise/recreation room and a room used for training ( lecture and writen testing). also what are restroom requirments. i was out of the construction field for a few years and am rusty on building codes. i live cambria county, pennsylvania if it helps

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Old 01-23-2011, 10:13 PM   #2
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Your local authorities will be able to answer all your questions. More than likely everything on the 1st & 2nd floors will need to be ADA accessible. Fire Marshall may want a direct to exterior egress & have a say in stairway widths. Fire Sprinklers? Do a google search for ADA requirements. Bathrooms take up a lot of space & elevators are expensive.

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Old 01-24-2011, 11:16 AM   #3
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


You need a copy of the IBC book, many buiding codes are based on this book.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:26 PM   #4
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Is this for a new fire station or the offices of a fire department? This is very close to a DIY question.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:12 PM   #5
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


anti-wingnut this is for a new station for a volunteer fire company
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:57 PM   #6
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Im going to say either a ramp or an elevator will be required. Regardless of how its classified and what the floor is being used for its still a public entity. And it shouldnt matter even if you donated the building you cannot discriminate an that area.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:10 PM   #7
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


As much as I hate to say this -- Hire an Architect. You are going to need complete plans.

Give up on the second floor idea. It's cheaper to build a little bigger than to get into elevators, stairs, etc.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:07 AM   #8
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


IBC codes will help you get an idea, but you really need to contact the local building code office for that municipality as local codes can be more stringent than the IBC.

A ramp or elevator to the second floor is not required.

If you are going to build from the ground up you do need an architect and would recommend a GC as well.

Last edited by Zer0Tolerance; 02-09-2011 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:59 AM   #9
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


DBBII Give up on the second floor idea. It's cheaper to build a little bigger than to get into elevators, stairs, etc.[/quote]


Your joking right.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:32 PM   #10
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


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Originally Posted by Zer0Tolerance View Post
A ramp or elevator to the second floor is not required.
If the training rooms and offices are on the second floor, and there is not rooms of equal use on the first floor, I don't know how you can say this


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Im going to say either a ramp or an elevator will be required.
And elevators end up being the most common result. A 100' ramp ends up being a littler ponderous
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:01 PM   #11
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


I have the definitive answer... "it depends"

The IBC or ADAAG doesn't require an elevator in all situations but your local codes may. Have an Architect design the space so your building official will approve the plans without an elevator. In MN if the second floor has an occupancy of less then 30 you sometimes don't need an elevator. There are a few other exceptions. Good luck!
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:05 PM   #12
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


There are a great many factors that go into building a code compliant commercial structure of any height.

You really need to talk to a pro, Architect or Designer.

Andy.
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Old 02-26-2011, 03:18 PM   #13
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Quote:
Originally Posted by MplsGC
I have the definitive answer... "it depends"

The IBC or ADAAG doesn't require an elevator in all situations but your local codes may. Have an Architect design the space so your building official will approve the plans without an elevator. In MN if the second floor has an occupancy of less then 30 you sometimes don't need an elevator. There are a few other exceptions. Good luck!
Exactly. In any event, drawings are going to be needed for permitting and bids, so hire an architect. You may be able to apply for variances depending on the building use and jurisdictional requirements.

One question: are there ADA requirements on the fireman poles? Or do they even use those anymore? LOL
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:07 PM   #14
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


ADA requirements are not going to be in the building code. In fact, usually the building department doesn't check or even care. The problem will surface when someone challenges accessibility after the fact. Use an architect and he can be on the hook for interpretation of the code.

We built a 160 unit condo complex, and three 16 plexes were framed and drywalled before someone from the state stopped in and required us to change configuration of the bathrooms on the first floor. We had plan review, inspections, etc. This was outside of the scope of the local building department. This is a state, and ultimately federal issue.

Luckily, we had a architect, and he was on the hook for the expense to change 24 units. It's a complicated mess to figure out, and a costly one to correct if it's wrong.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:15 AM   #15
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


You have to check with your local building department or Architect which provisions of the code you must meet for a 2 story building for Use and Occupancy clasification Group A-3 or B.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:13 AM   #16
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Quote:
Originally Posted by skcolo View Post
ADA requirements are not going to be in the building code. In fact, usually the building department doesn't check or even care. The problem will surface when someone challenges accessibility after the fact. Use an architect and he can be on the hook for interpretation of the code.

We built a 160 unit condo complex, and three 16 plexes were framed and drywalled before someone from the state stopped in and required us to change configuration of the bathrooms on the first floor. We had plan review, inspections, etc. This was outside of the scope of the local building department. This is a state, and ultimately federal issue.

Luckily, we had a architect, and he was on the hook for the expense to change 24 units. It's a complicated mess to figure out, and a costly one to correct if it's wrong.
ADAAG is not a building code but they are referenced in the building code. I am surprised to hear you say the building officials don't care. Are you saying they don't go out of their way to point out something the architect missed? This I would agree with. Most of them don't know ADA guidelines as well as the building code. I guess it is not their job to care but it is every general contractors and and architects job who is building, altering or changing the occupancy of a building to understand ADA.

As to the situation you describe: It is a bummer but we have all seen a set of plans can go through plan review with code violation. It is the architects liability not the building official.

I am not aware of issues in building design or code that are addressed by the federal government. There are federal codes, guidelines and standards (try doing historical preservation work) but it is the local government that enforces them. But this is just my experience and I don't build 160 unit condo complexes. Besides that bubble popped years ago!
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:57 PM   #17
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Quote:
Originally Posted by MplsGC View Post
ADAAG is not a building code but they are referenced in the building code. I am surprised to hear you say the building officials don't care. Are you saying they don't go out of their way to point out something the architect missed? This I would agree with. Most of them don't know ADA guidelines as well as the building code. I guess it is not their job to care but it is every general contractors and and architects job who is building, altering or changing the occupancy of a building to understand ADA.

As to the situation you describe: It is a bummer but we have all seen a set of plans can go through plan review with code violation. It is the architects liability not the building official.

I am not aware of issues in building design or code that are addressed by the federal government. There are federal codes, guidelines and standards (try doing historical preservation work) but it is the local government that enforces them. But this is just my experience and I don't build 160 unit condo complexes. Besides that bubble popped years ago!
I never said the building officials don't care. I said they don't care about ADA requirements. I said it was out of the scope of the building department. It is not a code violation, it is not a building code. It is regulated by the federal government and sometimes by the state. That is why you can pass plan review and all inspections and not meet ADA requirements.

This project was the fault of the architect. I asked him several times if it meant ADA requirements. He was wrong. We sued him, he lost, and paid to fix it.

As far as the condo bubble bursting, this project was 12 years ago. Chill out. Geez.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:51 AM   #18
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Quote:
Originally Posted by skcolo View Post
I never said the building officials don't care. I said they don't care about ADA requirements. I said it was out of the scope of the building department. It is not a code violation, it is not a building code. It is regulated by the federal government and sometimes by the state. That is why you can pass plan review and all inspections and not meet ADA requirements.

This project was the fault of the architect. I asked him several times if it meant ADA requirements. He was wrong. We sued him, he lost, and paid to fix it.

As far as the condo bubble bursting, this project was 12 years ago. Chill out. Geez.
Hey skcolo, I wasn't trying to start an argument. I'm here to learn from others and share my experiences. I'm sure you know way more then me about ADA as I do almost all residential work. That said here in MN ADA is referenced in the state building code and not following the parts referenced would be a code violation. At least this is my understanding.

In the situation you mentioned you said it was someone from the state who required the changes. What department were they from? And also what Federal department would enforce ADA on a project?

Again, I'm in no way trying to argue. My limited experiences have had ADA requirements within the scope of the local building department and I'm interested in how it works on bigger projects or in different states. Thanks!
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:35 AM   #19
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Quote:
Originally Posted by skcolo View Post
I never said the building officials don't care. I said they don't care about ADA requirements. I said it was out of the scope of the building department. It is not a code violation, it is not a building code. It is regulated by the federal government and sometimes by the state. That is why you can pass plan review and all inspections and not meet ADA requirements
That is a statement that I would categorize as completely incorrect, bordering on blasphemously wrong. During my not inconsequential commercial career, I have found that ADA requirements are stringently enforced by every local building department around here.

Could it be that your sum total of exposure to ADA requirements was on a project that went south 12 years ago, in some little podunk? If so, maybe keep your mouth shut and your attitude in check. You are doing nothing but spreading misinformation
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:39 AM   #20
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Re: Building Code For 2 Story Commercial


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
That is a statement that I would categorize as completely incorrect, bordering on blasphemously wrong. During my not inconsequential commercial career, I have found that ADA requirements are stringently enforced by every local building department around here.

Could it be that your sum total of exposure to ADA requirements was on a project that went south 12 years ago, in some little podunk? If so, maybe keep your mouth shut and your attitude in check. You are doing nothing but spreading misinformation
This was my understanding as well but with little experience didn't want to be arrogant on the subject. Thanks!

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