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Rogue Sub Contractor

 
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:12 PM   #21
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


Here's my two cents, a lot of guys commenting are siding installers, re-modelers, general contractors, and best of all LANDSCAPERS!!!! LOL Seems like the only guys that don't know how to prep, pour and finish concrete are the concrete guys. LOL Leave the concrete to the concrete guys and you guys do what you do.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:25 PM   #22
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


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Here's my two cents, a lot of guys commenting are siding installers, re-modelers, general contractors, and best of all LANDSCAPERS!!!! LOL Seems like the only guys that don't know how to prep, pour and finish concrete are the concrete guys. LOL Leave the concrete to the concrete guys and you guys do what you do.
I've done plenty of flat work and form work. If I am able to I'd prefer to do it myself. There's nothing worse then following through after a hack job mason / concrete guy and having to grind out form blow outs, try to build a square house on a un-square slab, grind off j-bolts because they land on a stud column, discover footings aren't located properly, find half filled cells that are supposed to be full, set windows in lop sided openings, I could go on and on. I'm not saying all masons / concrete guys are hacks, but I will say that I see more hacks than not. The saying around here is "Mason's tape measures only read in 1" increments." Again, I'm sure the fine gentleman on this site execute quality work otherwise you'd be spending your off time on something other than bettering your skill.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:04 PM   #23
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


We've poured lots of slabs without bar that I wish had bar. Our shop being one. The main problem being the slab cracks and then becomes uneven the steel will keep them smoother. We almost always add steel these days. Imo mesh is o.k. inside where the mesh will not rust through if the slab cracks. We hardly ever use mesh though mostly #4 bar, 18-24 O.C..
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:33 PM   #24
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


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Originally Posted by JesseCocozza View Post
"Mason's tape measures only read in 1" increments." I'm in Canada, the metric system is our game, it's a battle of millimeters with my work.Again, I'm sure the fine gentleman on this site execute quality work otherwise you'd be spending your off time on something other than bettering your skill. I've spent countless time honing my skills in this particular trade that's why i find it presumptuous of other trades offering their worldly knowledge on something a lot of them have never done, sounds like the engineers with the snake skin shoes we have to deal with!!!!
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:55 PM   #25
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


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It would be nice if we had some guys around here that cared about their work like you do.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:47 PM   #26
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


This thread reads up and down .. not too unlike a rollercoaster ride.

Rebar holding the cracks tighter? .. 5" is stronger than 4"? .. Mesh vs Steel?

Sad really.

Proper base/subgrade setup can either make or break a slab regardless of thickness, or even with regard to the kind of reinforcement the slab has.

Not putting "any" steel or mesh in "any" slab is pure stupidity .. The proper use of steel, control joints and expansion can be the difference between your slab lasting 9, or 90 years.

Concrete is a sponge .. it curls, it moves, it bobs, it weaves, and yes, it'll even crack .. not just some of it, all of it.

If you strike the slab like it's supposed to be struck, you won't even see cracks .. from a professional point of view, cracks are never a problem.

You don't put wire mesh in to keep it from "cracking" (it'll crack no matter what) .. you put wire mesh in to keep it from breaking.

Concrete bends. Just like a 2x4, concrete will bend until it breaks. The steel allows the concrete to bend further .. that's all.

Wire mesh won't allow a slab to bend as far as a slab with rebar in it .. it's a fact .. wire mesh is weaker .. slabs with wire mesh are weaker.

A slab with a tied 3/8" steel mat at 15" on center will be weaker than a slab with 1/2" steel tied 12" on center .. on so on and so forth.

I don't know where these boneheads came up with the myth that you don't have to use steel in a fiber batch mix slab .. ACI says "no" .. you still have to put steel, in, any, slab, you, pour .. regardless of fiber or other mix design ..

Fibers do not increase the flexural strength of concrete, and so cannot replace moment resisting or structural steel reinforcement.

I've setup, placed, and finished concrete from Seattle, Washington to Lake Charles, Louisiana and nearly every other place in between over the span of 35+ years, and I've heard it all and have seen nearly all of everything else ..

If you want to do concrete, fine, I'll applaud your good efforts .. one thing I'll ask .. please, please, please, learn about the product before you even talk to anyone about how the job should be done.
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:07 PM   #27
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


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.. All in all I would like to hear everyones opinion on the use of steel, how you would handle this with your sub and if you would handle it the same way I am.

IMHO your sub was probably trying to save your butt ...

Pouring a slab .. any slab .. without reinforcing steel, is pure foolishness.

I've subbed with GC's before ... and if they aren't willing to do the job right (put steel into the slab) .. then I'm not willing to be their sub.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:17 PM   #28
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


The OP is asking a less technical question but I'm in general agreement with Flatworkguy.

The slab subgrade supports the slab and loads placed on it. Rebar isn't effective enough in a 4" section to make a difference.

You can get away with fibermesh if you get your contraction joints cut quickly enough.

Steel reinforcement won't eliminate the need for contraction joints but will prevent a multitude of problems down the road.

Wire mesh is enough but is tough to support properly. I'd opt for rebar because it is rigid enough to stay in position when subjected to a finishing crew.

Lot's of misinformation out there when it comes to flatwork.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:49 PM   #29
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Re: Rogue Sub Contractor


A garage floor, shed floor, barn floor, any type of floor without a thickened edge and some #4 or #5 is a joke. Period end of sentence. Here in FLA engineers readily substitute fiber mesh for wire mesh. This does not change the Structual steel in the footing. I am afraid the original poster is a hack of a contractor. You admit to several mistakes and talk about it like it is standard operating procedure. What do the blue prints say? Oh yeah that's right there are none. No engineer, no permit. Hack hack hack. I applaud your sub for wanting to do the right thing.

With all that being said. The sub should be fired. The home owner is your customer. You are the subs customer. There is a chain of command, and if that is broken, everything else falls apart. The sub was wrong, even thou he saved you butt.

Oh and by the way I have been installing all types of steel and concrete for over 12 years, Spread footers, tie beams, slab on grade, columns, piers. Next college or high school athletic event you go to, be happy. I may have been the one that installed the foundation and bleachers.

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