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Concrete Issues

 
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:53 PM   #1
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Concrete Issues


Hello, New to this site.
I am trying to figure out what my concrete basement floors are doing. We are in Ohio, and on Dec 19, 2019 a company I sub contracted out showed up and poured my basement floors in a new construction home. Temps were mid 20's. Pour seemed to go smoothly, temps for the following 2 weeks were mid 30's-low 40's... After only about 7 days, I noticed small circles forming in the concrete. 1-2 days later, the circles began to pop. They became worse over the 1500ish square feet. After contacting the concrete company, and the sub contractor, they determined the concrete mix was in the % parameters, the weather following the pour was fine, no rain, no freezing temps, etc. Nobody can tell me what this is, or how to fix it. I have the sub contractor that did it power washing the floors, causing the rest of the surface to pop where its going to, then he wants to fill the cracks, use a underlayment and a concrete paint from Sherwin Williams. I have another guy who says the only fix is jack hammer it all out or use a 2 part epoxy resin to finish... I need help! The concrete company says they haven't ever seen this before, they tested the strength of the concrete with a hammer tool and say the strength and integrity is fine, its just the top surface. Any help is greatly appreciated!

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Old 02-21-2019, 08:10 PM   #2
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Re: Concrete Issues


Hello, New to this site.
I am trying to figure out what my concrete basement floors are doing. We are in Ohio, and on Dec 19, 2019 a company I sub contracted out showed up and poured my basement floors in a new construction home. Temps were mid 20's. Pour seemed to go smoothly, temps for the following 2 weeks were mid 30's-low 40's... After only about 7 days, I noticed small circles forming in the concrete. 1-2 days later, the circles began to pop. They became worse over the 1500ish square feet. After contacting the concrete company, and the sub contractor, they determined the concrete mix was in the % parameters, the weather following the pour was fine, no rain, no freezing temps, etc. Nobody can tell me what this is, or how to fix it. I have the sub contractor that did it power washing the floors, causing the rest of the surface to pop where its going to, then he wants to fill the cracks, use a underlayment and a concrete paint from Sherwin Williams. I have another guy who says the only fix is jack hammer it all out or use a 2 part epoxy resin to finish... I need help! The concrete company says they haven't ever seen this before, they tested the strength of the concrete with a hammer tool and say the strength and integrity is fine, its just the top surface. Any help is greatly appreciated!
i will try to post pics

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Old 02-21-2019, 08:35 PM   #3
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Re: Concrete Issues


December temps 30-40 daytime or night?

What additives were in the mix?
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:53 PM   #4
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Re: Concrete Issues


Did they cover it with blankets for that first week?

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Old 02-21-2019, 09:12 PM   #5
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Re: Concrete Issues


what slump was the concrete placed?

what is the mix design?

do you have a contract w/the concrete guy?
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:16 PM   #6
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Re: Concrete Issues


Sounds like moisture curing at the top was freezing leading to seperating. Now scaling/blistering. Can't trust anyone these days....not enough personal care. Shouldn't have some blankets
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:52 AM   #7
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Re: Concrete Issues


What kind of sub grade did they pour on, plastic, sand, gravel...?


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Old 02-22-2019, 07:08 AM   #8
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Re: Concrete Issues


Daytime temps were 30-40, but no temps ever below 32.
They did use an additive. When asked, sub contractor said his mix. No measurement ever used, he just tipped jug up into truck and then they mixed for 5-10 minutes
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:08 AM   #9
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Re: Concrete Issues


Quote:
Originally Posted by tgeb View Post
Did they cover it with blankets for that first week?

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No blankets ever used. THey told me temps werent cold enough
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:09 AM   #10
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Re: Concrete Issues


Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb1989 View Post
What kind of sub grade did they pour on, plastic, sand, gravel...?


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We have red clay. they laid 3-5 inches of gravel, then plastic, then rebar fencing.
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:11 AM   #11
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Re: Concrete Issues


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
what slump was the concrete placed?

what is the mix design?

do you have a contract w/the concrete guy?
not sure of the mix design or slump. no contract. He said he will fix, but wants to paint on some material from sherwin williams...

I will try to post pics today. I couldnt get them to load last night
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:06 AM   #12
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Re: Concrete Issues


Ground temperature is often colder due to low lying air, plus the plastic drawing all moisture to the surface.
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:19 AM   #13
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Re: Concrete Issues


Even though you say the temperatures weren't below freezing, it sounds like they were. I had this happen on one of my own basement floors. Poured about the same time of year. Similar soil and base. It was cold, but I don't think it was below freezing. Mine wasn't all over, but it was in one area. about a 5' circle. The top popped off. I blame the bleed water coming up. We patched it and moved on. We were already planning floor coverings in that area, so the patch never showed.

As for the additive they added, what was it. That time of year, I would suspect they added calcium chloride. I've never seen it as a liquid, but that doesn't mean anything. There's alot I haven't seen. It's always possible they put it in a bottle and dissolved it, before adding it.

When they say Sherwin Williams paint, what exactly are they talking about? The other person said 2 part epoxy. This could be the same thing. Sherwin Williams sells H&C epoxy. I've had good luck with it. I figure $1 per square ft. materials.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:18 AM   #14
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Re: Concrete Issues


I suspect that overnight temps got well below freezing at least a couple of times during the last 2 weeks of last December.

I checked my local temps for December and about 1/2 of the nights last December were below freezing a couple into the teens. Ohio is typically a little colder than it is here in Md.

At any rate, patching would be appropriate, but if you intend to put down ceramic tile in the future, any paint or sealant that he puts on it will have to be removed in order for the tile thinset mortar to bond.

I'm not sure about other floor coverings, ie, glue down hardwood or vinyl products.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:33 AM   #15
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Re: Concrete Issues


In your third sentence you stated that when they poured, temps were in the mid 20's. Sounds like the surface froze, but the "why" really shouldn't matter to you. Your concrete contractor needs to come back, jack hammer out the slab and properly replace it.

Do not accept a patch job or coating.
Hope you haven't paid them yet.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:49 PM   #16
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Re: Concrete Issues




The third one is a spot that didnít stick.
This floor has true chips, which comes with it, but not necessary. It also has a clear topcoat. It was $150 a gallon.

We put this in a pet store a year ago. Itís held up well.


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Old 02-22-2019, 12:56 PM   #17
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Re: Concrete Issues


Thought of something else. Iíve seen guys work the surface, so much, the top layer almost separates from the slab. Usually itís from getting a ďhot spotĒ.
I donít think it would happen that time of year, but with calcium, maybe.

In my experience, calcium works great for a couple hours, then you canít tell itís in there.


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Old 03-04-2019, 04:23 PM   #18
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Re: Concrete Issues


Did you notice a lot of bumps on the floor, like trapped air? That's the first thing I thought of, which is likely from too much air entrainment combined with hard trowelling. If it was machine troweled, I can almost guarantee that's the issue.

If it froze, it's far more likely to dust or have very fine delaminating.

I don't know how you folks do it in OH, but here, we pour basement floors all winter with little concern of freezing, but we do it once the house is framed, the windows are in (or at least sealed) and the roof is complete. Generally, out of the wind, with the stairwell holes blocked off, the concrete mass in the floor and walls will keep it warm long enough that it can't freeze.

If you pour them before the cap there, that's a whole 'nother scenario........
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:58 AM   #19
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Re: Concrete Issues


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama View Post
Did you notice a lot of bumps on the floor, like trapped air? That's the first thing I thought of, which is likely from too much air entrainment combined with hard trowelling. If it was machine troweled, I can almost guarantee that's the issue.

If it froze, it's far more likely to dust or have very fine delaminating.

I don't know how you folks do it in OH, but here, we pour basement floors all winter with little concern of freezing, but we do it once the house is framed, the windows are in (or at least sealed) and the roof is complete. Generally, out of the wind, with the stairwell holes blocked off, the concrete mass in the floor and walls will keep it warm long enough that it can't freeze.

If you pour them before the cap there, that's a whole 'nother scenario........
It's always a fun day if they throw air into the mix on floor you are supposed to power trowel.

I make it a point to specify "no air" when ordering for floors.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:35 AM   #20
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Re: Concrete Issues


That can also happen if guys put steel on the floor before the bleed water is gone.

Seen it happen.

Some guys don't understand that you have to float first, and wait for ALL bleed water to evaporate, before putting steel on the slab.

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