We Knew This Was Coming - Insulation - Contractor Talk

We Knew This Was Coming

 
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:58 AM   #1
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We Knew This Was Coming


I opened my new GL policy statements and exclusions, and guess what? Spray foam and components of any kind are excluded from my coverage. My insurance company will not cover the use of, contracting with a sub contractor to do the work, or basically having anything to do with it.

Now, I can get around this for the little we deal with it directly, but...I use WindLok foam glue for all of our ICF installations. Guess I have to see what the insurance guys really mean.

I might make a prediction here....it has been discussed in code classes in my area, and a little from the national reviews....but with the fire departments lining up against the spray foam and fire issues, as well as the off gassing problems during and after install, we may see the end of the current spray foam insulation soon.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:03 AM   #2
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


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I opened my new GL policy statements and exclusions, and guess what? Spray foam and components of any kind are excluded from my coverage. My insurance company will not cover the use of, contracting with a sub contractor to do the work, or basically having anything to do with it.

Now, I can get around this for the little we deal with it directly, but...I use WindLok foam glue for all of our ICF installations. Guess I have to see what the insurance guys really mean.

I might make a prediction here....it has been discussed in code classes in my area, and a little from the national reviews....but with the fire departments lining up against the spray foam and fire issues, as well as the off gassing problems during and after install, we may see the end of the current spray foam insulation soon.

Thoughts?
Good no more melted wires!

As far as insurance goes find a company that will insure you. There are only 2 companies in Canada that will cover my line of work and I get royally shafted on the price....but I don't really have a choice.

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:06 AM   #3
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


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Good no more melted wires! As far as insurance goes find a company that will insure you. There are only 2 companies in Canada that will cover my line of work and I get royally shafted on the price....but I don't really have a choice.
In ny we only have one that will insure roofing.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:14 AM   #4
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In ny we only have one that will insure roofing.
And I'm sure you pay handsomely for it!
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:15 AM   #5
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And I'm sure you pay handsomely for it!
Yeah, it's a rip off. Every year I say no roofs, but that doesn't seam to happen
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:19 AM   #6
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Yeah, it's a rip off. Every year I say no roofs, but that doesn't seam to happen
What ballpark price are we talking? Just the GL portion of mine is 4K per year.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:25 AM   #7
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What ballpark price are we talking? Just the GL portion of mine is 4K per year.
My liability is small, about $1500 a year with no more than 25% gross in roofing. Then 24% for comp. I'm hoping to get it down to 20% this year.

A friend of mine is down to 12% but he's never had a claim in since he started in 88. I've only had employees for 4 years
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:42 AM   #8
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My liability is small, about $1500 a year with no more than 25% gross in roofing. Then 24% for comp. I'm hoping to get it down to 20% this year.

A friend of mine is down to 12% but he's never had a claim in since he started in 88. I've only had employees for 4 years
My comp rate is as low as it can go 3.6%
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:58 PM   #9
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


As much as I love the stuff in problem solving situations i'd like to see it gone so that no one will spray a whole house with it anymore and pretend to be "green"! We need to make better houses that don't require this building envelope steroid. I'm ready.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:04 AM   #10
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Good no more melted wires!

As far as insurance goes find a company that will insure you. There are only 2 companies in Canada that will cover my line of work and I get royally shafted on the price....but I don't really have a choice.
I think you totally missed the point. The larger point will be the issues that are coming from the use of spray foam, not who will cover it in the industry. Our HBA is tied with our Major insurer, and sure, I suppose you can shop around, but so? If the product is going to present greater and greater liabilities, then there needs to be a real discussion about the process....not crying about who will insure it.

There are code issues with polyurethane based spray foam now...and this is the opening shot as far as GL insurance goes.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:08 AM   #11
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


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Originally Posted by jlsconstruction
My liability is small, about $1500 a year with no more than 25% gross in roofing. Then 24% for comp. I'm hoping to get it down to 20% this year. A friend of mine is down to 12% but he's never had a claim in since he started in 88. I've only had employees for 4 years
My liability is $1,040.00 per year.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:17 AM   #12
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


I've only used it once in the last 20 years or so. Not a big market for it here. I had a heck of a time even finding someone who could do it around here. They were all super busy with HUD and other government jobs.

My biggest worry is when they eventually make us treat fiberglass insulation like we do lead.

If I was a roofing contractor, my liability would start out at 10,000.00 a year and go up.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:51 AM   #13
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My liability is $1,040.00 per year.
I need to move to cali...
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:56 AM   #14
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


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My biggest worry is when they eventually make us treat fiberglass insulation like we do lead. If I was a roofing contractor, my liability would start out at 10,000.00 a year and go up.
Its only a matter of time before fiberglass is classified as a Heath hazard. As soon as its at the point its no longer used that's when this will happen. Profits stop flowing in so its rolled into another money making scam.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:00 AM   #15
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


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My liability is $1,040.00 per year.
Mine is $648.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:01 AM   #16
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Mine is $648.
For how much coverage? I gotta have 5mil gl 10mil aggregate.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:11 AM   #17
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For how much coverage? I gotta have 5mil gl 10mil aggregate.
2 mil
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:47 AM   #18
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


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Originally Posted by Joasis View Post
I might make a prediction here....it has been discussed in code classes in my area, and a little from the national reviews....but with the fire departments lining up against the spray foam and fire issues, as well as the off gassing problems during and after install, we may see the end of the current spray foam insulation soon.

Thoughts?
Reminds me of the spray foam ban in the late 70's,early 80's.Kind of a deja vous for questions about this products
safe use in today's building practices,especially as it is touted by the" Green Builders".

Can't blame the Ins. industry for its stand,seems there has been some concern over the last few years.My only question is,do all foam products fit the criteria of these concerns.

Our local guy stated his product is eco-friendly,as it is made with natural oils,(peanut oil I believe).Not sure it its 100% natural,or if it has added petroleum based properties,but he claims its safe.
But,after reading up on it, adding in a fire retardant would seem to negate the safe value of his claim.

Its got me wondering now about any future recommendation for any foam products used on my projects.Better to err on the side of caution here,especially if the Ins. industry isn't covering our butts.

I think your prediction is spot on here Joasis,until all the testing is done on the various foams available,we'll all become targets for hungry lawyers and HO's with an inkling of a sniffle.

Good heads up on this,glad you posted your concerns!
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:55 AM   #19
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Re: We Knew This Was Coming


This kind of reminds me of a few years back when they where having problems with Drivit not being installed right . The insurance companies put all siding in the same group for a while. Kind make it hard to find insurance that did not cost a arm and leg for a while.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:10 AM   #20
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Isn't petroleum natural?

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