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Vaulted Ceiling Insulation

 
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:39 AM   #1
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Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Planing on building a new house with a vaulted ceiling and have read in a few places that the ceiling needs to be vented so the roof with not rot.

Seems like good info. until I read the article below:

http://www.applegateinsulation.com/P...es/249234.aspx

I would like some opinions on this article.

I live in NE Ohio and insulation is important.
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:06 AM   #2
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Not a huge fan of cellulose myself. While a properly done unvented roof can be better on a number of fronts, it's also more expensive than traditional vented.

Chew on this article for a decent picture of the variables involved:

https://buildingscience.com/document...of-design/view

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Old 12-18-2016, 01:22 PM   #3
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


My concern is that while this method may prove beneficial for the interior of the home, in my experience, an unvented assembly like that can weak havoc on the shingles, sheathing, and rafters. I have seen some roofs with no ventilation where the stifling heat caused a lot of framing movement.
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:43 PM   #4
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
Not a huge fan of cellulose myself. While a properly done unvented roof can be better on a number of fronts, it's also more expensive than traditional vented.

Chew on this article for a decent picture of the variables involved:

https://buildingscience.com/document...of-design/view
I couldn't understand all the article, but it seems that the article states that a non-vented roof can do the job but is a lot of extra trouble and cost.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:13 PM   #5
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
My concern is that while this method may prove beneficial for the interior of the home, in my experience, an unvented assembly like that can weak havoc on the shingles, sheathing, and rafters. I have seen some roofs with no ventilation where the stifling heat caused a lot of framing movement.
One of the purposes for ventillation in a vaulted roof is to dry out condensation that occures in areas with dead airspace, or where the air passes through from a conditioned space to an outside space.

If you eliminate the dead air space, and you install an insulation, like a premium all borate cellulose, then there is no longer a need for air vents in the sloped roof.

if the soffit is vented, and there is access for proper ventilation at the top of the vent, then they can be installed.

but if the roof is not thick enough, which in a lot of cases it isn't, adding an air vent takes away precious insulation space. in that case I avoid putting a air vent in and dense pack the sloped ceiling with cellulose.

FYI - You need 10 inches of properly installed cellulose to stop the snow from melting on the roof and ice-cycles from forming along the gutter line. so if you install a air vent, you sacrivice some insulation thickness for the ventillation that is not needed if you dense pack with cellulose.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:21 PM   #6
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael217 View Post
Planing on building a new house with a vaulted ceiling and have read in a few places that the ceiling needs to be vented so the roof with not rot.

Seems like good info. until I read the article below:

http://www.applegateinsulation.com/P...es/249234.aspx

I would like some opinions on this article.

I live in NE Ohio and insulation is important.
yes, this article is correct. it is a better way to insulate a cathedral ceiling by dense packing cellulose. we have been doing that without a baffle in cathedral ceilings for 30 years. some areas are not vent-able anyway. such as where two cathedral ceilings come together.

by stopping air infiltration and dense packing the cavity, you remove the purpose for the vent, which is to dry out condensation. the condensation does not occure in this case, so the need of an air vent is no longer prevalent.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:26 PM   #7
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Quote:
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I couldn't understand all the article, but it seems that the article states that a non-vented roof can do the job but is a lot of extra trouble and cost.
its not actually. an insulation professional would hang a piece of thick fabric netting tightly across the botttom of the rafters. then a hole is made in the fabric where the insulation hose is inserted. its very common and that is a very effective way of insulating your sloped ceiling. on top of that, cellulose really works great in many way.

it can help stop the spread of fire
greatly reduces sound transfer
non-toxic
prevents bugs and rodents
prevents mod and mildew
100% green and safe for the home
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:25 PM   #8
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Well, that was an enjoyable article for sure.

I wonder what Michael decided on doing.

Andy.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:50 AM   #9
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


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Well, that was an enjoyable article for sure.

I wonder what Michael decided on doing.

Andy.
I went with a step down ceiling because it can be insulated to an R30. Would radder have to valued ceiling but just didn't want problems.
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Old 07-06-2017, 10:13 AM   #10
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael217 View Post
I went with a step down ceiling because it can be insulated to an R30. Would radder have to valued ceiling but just didn't want problems.


Keep in mind that R-30 does not meet code in Northeast Ohio.
i understand that there are, in some cases, nothing you can do.
that being said, if you can put 10 inches of cellulose without compromising the look and usability of the room, then i would do it.

Also, one thing that bothers me is when a home has R-50 in the attic but along the perimeter there is an R-13 or less. this is a recepie for ice cycles, however do to the older designs of homes over the past 100 years left us with some dificult circumstances to deal with. in those cases spraying foam along the top edge can be a good solution without going all out and using foam throughout the whole house.
spraying the rest of the house with cellulose would still have a class 1 fire rating and give you discounts from home owners insurance.

Joseph Wolf
www.AIRLOCK-Insulation.com
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:38 PM   #11
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
Not a huge fan of cellulose myself. While a properly done unvented roof can be better on a number of fronts, it's also more expensive than traditional vented.

Chew on this article for a decent picture of the variables involved:

https://buildingscience.com/document...of-design/view
Im interested to know why you are not a big fan of cellulose.

www.Airlock-Insulation.com
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Old 08-18-2017, 08:36 PM   #12
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


Seminar I attended regarding mold problems (huge liability issues) said that cellulose has problems drying out if wetted.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:58 PM   #13
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Re: Vaulted Ceiling Insulation


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Seminar I attended regarding mold problems (huge liability issues) said that cellulose has problems drying out if wetted.
Thanks for the feedback.

so ultimately you are not a fan because of what you heard, not what you experienced? makes me wonder who promoted the seminar...

we have insulated a couple thousand homes with spray cellulose.

after 30 years of having an excellent reputation with 3 counties of local building departments we have not personally had an issue involving celulose having problems drying out.

we have heard of some issues outside our company where the installer was not a trained tech, or where someone trapped the cellulose in plastic sheeting, but cellulose has a natural wicking process. withing normal ranges of moisture for spraying and non moisture trapping conditions, or water penetrating a water proof surface, i have yet to see cellulose have difficulty "dying out" but have heard of non trained installers using too much water. that is why it is so important to check out your contractors before you hire them. and ask who threir installer is and how many years he's been with the company. i do this with all trades i hire anyway.

Joseph
www.AIRLOCK-Insulation.com

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