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Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair

 
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Old 11-30-2018, 12:41 PM   #1
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Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Hello everyone,

I was hoping some of the painters and drywallers on here would be willing to give me their opinion on a ceiling repair I am quoting. Most of the ceilings I have had to fix were textured and I have been able to blend them in almost perfectly but now I have a smooth ceiling I'm a little concerned about. I need to cut out an approximately 3 x 10 foot section of cracked, falling plaster (probably skim coated with drywall compound more recently) and replace it with drywall. It is in the middle of the dining room ceiling, there is a chandelier in the middle of the damaged plaster which is not throwing, intense, direct light on the ceiling but it is definitely lighting the ceiling. I am pretty confident I can get the repair dead flat so there aren't any humps or anything standing out but I'm a little concerned about texture/flashing. Do you guys think if I prime with 1 coat Sherwin Williams Multipurpose Primer, only on the patch, 1 coat SW Eminence base white, flat, only on the patch, and 2 coats of Eminence base white, flat on the whole ceiling it will blend in correctly or would it be better to put a thin layer of all purpose mud over the patch first? Or is there a completely different method people would recommend?


Thanks,

David
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:10 PM   #2
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


From the patch I've done on plaster, I've noticed a particular surface sensitivity to light beside "regular patch". Even when patch seems "right on". Then again this could really vary by conditions.

If this is a smaller dining ceiling, I'd recommend a continuous layer.
If you are patching with dissimilar materials, you might not want to get anyone's hopes up too high IMHO...

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Old 12-01-2018, 06:21 PM   #3
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Are you sure Eminence is on the rest of the ceiling? How was it applied, vs. how you will apply? How recent was the last ceiling paint job, since they fade with dirt over time?
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:29 PM   #4
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Eminence as a paint however I've had great luck with. Did a texture match on a drywall ceiling recently where it's hard to tell any difference.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:33 PM   #5
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Biggest issue is the existing stipple.

Get can a spray orange peel, spray it on, while wet roll over it with a 3/8" nap roller. This should texture the ceiling just enough to make the repair invisible.

Second option is SW Multi Purpose primer rolled (3/8" nap) over the patch, rolling beyond the patch, feather to a dry edge, prime entire ceiling, paint.

Tom
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:27 AM   #6
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


If you use the correct primer and prime the whole ceiling flashing shouldn't be an issue. Difference in texture and visible seams would be my concern.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:26 PM   #7
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Artinall,

When you say a continuous layer you mean just skim the whole ceiling with mud so the paint takes the same all the way across? I had not thought of trying that but it sounds like it would work, I don't think this ceiling is much more than 12x15.

MarkJames,

I do not know what the original paint was or how it was applied, it is not that old, probably well under 10 years and doesn't look too dirty or faded. Are you saying the best thing to do is use the exact same paint that was originally used for the first coat over the patch?

It sounds like everyone has slightly different methods for this sort of thing, I'm going to have to just try one of these things and see how well it works. It seems like the worst that could happen is I don't get it to blend in and I have to skim the whole ceiling and try again.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:01 PM   #8
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


yes David. either mud, texture, or primer (in that order)

- If you can make it stick.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:32 PM   #9
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by David-Remodeler View Post
Artinall,

When you say a continuous layer you mean just skim the whole ceiling with mud so the paint takes the same all the way across? I had not thought of trying that but it sounds like it would work, I don't think this ceiling is much more than 12x15.

MarkJames,

I do not know what the original paint was or how it was applied, it is not that old, probably well under 10 years and doesn't look too dirty or faded. Are you saying the best thing to do is use the exact same paint that was originally used for the first coat over the patch?

It sounds like everyone has slightly different methods for this sort of thing, I'm going to have to just try one of these things and see how well it works. It seems like the worst that could happen is I don't get it to blend in and I have to skim the whole ceiling and try again.
Ceiling paints are all different whites. Even Sherwin has more than one. And even when you do have the right one, it will look different if you roll vs. the original being sprayed, etc . Patching ceilings is a big pita to get perfect..might as well repaint it.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:29 PM   #10
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Bit off-topic, have you considered an upsell to bead-board and crown?

Why not, it's an older place and you're a remodeler.
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:54 PM   #11
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by artinall View Post
Bit off-topic, have you considered an upsell to bead-board and crown?

Why not, it's an older place and you're a remodeler.
Replace entire ceiling. Install crown. Perfect "match." Where's the dollar sign emoji?
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:26 AM   #12
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Gibson View Post
Replace entire ceiling. Install crown. Perfect "match." Where's the dollar sign emoji?
Hey'd I tell you we're running a Christmas special?

Last edited by artinall; 12-05-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:53 PM   #13
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Making a 3'x10' ceiling replacement look unnoticeable is next to impossible. What is the percentage of that sheet compared to the overall size of the ceiling? If you're going for perfection for a picky customer, replace it all. If not so picky, do the best you can at making the drywall patch fit flush next to the good part (a task unto itself). Rolling some paint onto the patch to match the existing paint stipple won't work, you're still going to see that patch. Making things worse is that today's quality flat paints still have a slight sheen.

When I had to do something like this, I actually went out of my way to find the flattest flat paint I could, even if that meant using a cheaper quality paint because, any sheen at all will magnify your patch where it meets up to the sound parts of the ceiling. I also used Zinnsers interior latex primer which dries absolutely flat flat. If you use any other primer, it will create a shiner in that area when you top coat it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Zinsser-Bul...-fl-oz/3658418

That primer is not so good at sealing water stains, but dries absolutely flat (good for certain situations in order to avoid ceiling shiners).

If you cover the stain a few times with that flat drying primer (and you notice the stain getting blocked more each time), the tip here is to fog coat the remaining stubborn water stain area with a spray can of solvent based Kilz. Then, roll on another coat of flat drying primer and see if that does it. There wasn't any glaring shiny ceiling spot afterwards where a water stain occurred on a customers wide ceiling (under lamps at night).

Nowadays, stains get sealed, super shiny spot on flat ceilings afterwards.
Your customer asks, why is there that glaring shiny area where the leak was?

"Sorry, that's just the way it is."

says...

Last edited by Caslon; 12-13-2018 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:20 AM   #14
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


It’s even better when you have snow on the ground. The sunlight reflects off the snow and directs it through your windows right onto the ceiling. I’ve never seen a ceiling textured or not where you couldn’t see every joint with snow on the ground.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:51 AM   #15
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Every single ceiling sheet rock repair I do, I have in the estimate that we will patch paint and if unsatisfactory we will paint full ceiling at $*** additional cost.
People are a lot less picky when they have a dollar amount right there for perfection.
If you dont point this out in the beginning then they will assume you are going to get it perfect,
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #16
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
Every single ceiling sheet rock repair I do, I have in the estimate that we will patch paint and if unsatisfactory we will paint full ceiling at $*** additional cost.
People are a lot less picky when they have a dollar amount right there for perfection.
If you dont point this out in the beginning then they will assume you are going to get it perfect,
Another option yet though infrequently done would be to paper it. For the X-Ray eyed.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:46 AM   #17
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Can I say one thing? Making a 3x10" drywall match up perfectly to the existing area and make it look flush afterwards?.

Forget what paint to use, what your attempting is next to impossible.
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:47 AM   #18
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by artinall View Post
Another option yet though infrequently done would be to paper it. For the X-Ray eyed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caslon View Post
Can I say one thing? Making a 3x10" drywall match up perfectly to the existing area and make it look flush afterwards?.

Forget what paint to use, what your attempting is next to impossible.
In a plaster? 3x10 gonna gets feathered out 20-36" radius. Basically so that the variations of the surface are similar to the plaster. Which waves, is not perfectly flat. After that the plaster wall surface and drywall patch are not the same texture, the new area has not been painted numerous times all of which will cause varied flash. No blanket cure, except prime and paint the whole ceiling. Often tho just have to play with different approaches, numbers of coats, where and how to feather primer and paint. Often can get close enough where it is not 'noticeable'. LOL That $50-75 patch is now LOTS MORE.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:15 AM   #19
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Thank you for the help everyone. The customer ended up asking me to just do the drywall repair for now and hold off on the painting (I'm afraid they're thinking of painting themselves, I know they're saving their money to have me do some drywall repair upstairs so it's hard to say if they'll have me back to paint later or if that's outside of their budget). The patch looked pretty good to me unpainted and they were happy and I got paid so I'm calling it a win but I will probably handle this differently in the future using some of your suggestions. The beadboard and crown especially is a cool idea that I might try, though I'm having a little trouble seeing it on this house (and this budget). Also it turned out the reason the ceiling was coming apart was because someone hung a 10lb chandelier from a pancake box and screwed the pancake box to the lath but not to the framing so I put some blocking up there while I was at it.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:24 PM   #20
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Re: Preventing Flashing On A Smooth Ceiling Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
Biggest issue is the existing stipple.

Get can a spray orange peel, spray it on, while wet roll over it with a 3/8" nap roller. This should texture the ceiling just enough to make the repair invisible.

Second option is SW Multi Purpose primer rolled (3/8" nap) over the patch, rolling beyond the patch, feather to a dry edge, prime entire ceiling, paint.

Tom
That sounds like a trick I'll have to try.

For that, I usually take a 1/2 or 3/4 nap roller for the primer, then go back to a 3/8 for the top coats. That has worked well for me in the past

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