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New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210

 
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:01 PM   #1
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New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


I've been brush painting trim for 11 years and after getting a job for a 2400 sq ft house full of trim, doors, and wainscoting, my partner convinced me we should "try" airless.

I bought the Magnum X5 and a Graco FFLP 210 tip. I'm sure I should have gotten a Titan 440 but I wanted to make sure this was going to be the big time and material saver that I was told it would be. I figured if the pump burns out after this one job I'll get my money's worth.

We're using SW ProClassic Semi.

I shot the first 3 doors and wanted to pitch this thing out a window. The paint went on so heavy I had runs everywhere. I thought it was my speed, so I really stepped it up, to the point that I wasn't overlapping enough. Same thing... way too heavy.

So I set up some test sheets and dialed the pressure down as low as I could get it without fingering and it's still a mess.

The first door jam I shot was a similar experience.. major runs.

I'm moving as fast as I can, not hovering in corners, dialing the pressure down as low as possible, using good product, and keeping the gun 6-8" from the surface.

What the am I doing wrong??
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:18 PM   #2
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


It takes some getting used to for sure. Does the x5 use the FFLP tips? That's what my Graco Ultra uses...

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Old 02-12-2020, 06:26 PM   #3
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Here's a guy using a FFLP310 tip. Is this how you are spraying? 2nd review down name is Kav

https://www.amazon.com/Graco-FFLP310...9KFGW0KGZ0D0XE
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:31 PM   #4
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Which pro classic are you using?

My first attempt at spraying was with the alkyd acrylic using an hvlp, that made me want to bash my head against a wall.

There's a few guys on here who will be able to help steer you in the right direction. They pounded into my head, test before trying on your finished product.

Have you talked to your sherwin rep? What are the recommended settings on the paint can?

-Rich
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:31 PM   #5
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


That's right, low pressure and the blue guard allows you to use the FFLP tips.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:34 PM   #6
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Looks like the 2 in 210 is the width of the pattern. So you get a 4" pattern at 12". Seems a bit narrow to me. Bump up to the 310-510 for doors. Plus 6-8" might be a little to close, try backing off to 12" or so.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:49 PM   #7
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


12-14" from the surface. I shoot PC acrylic with a FFLP 312 for trim and doors.

If you didn’t change the tip seal using the one that comes with the FFLP tip, you’ve defeated how the tip works.

I have a Magnum that has been in service for at over 3 years. At least 1000 gallons through it. My go to is a 395 normally, the Magnum is much lighter so it gets used for jobs that are only a few hours worth of spraying.

Tom
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:53 PM   #8
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Airless spraying is never a material saver. You will always burn up more paint then with brushing. You lose paint priming, you lose some purging the lines, you lose some in the air, etc. it can be a time saver for certain tasks with the trade off being the time it takes to mask. But it certainly gives a nice, even finish with a consistent sheen.

I’ve never sprayed pro classic or any SW products but have sprayed a variety of Ben Moore products as well as PPG breakthrough. Each one goes on differently and you have to learn it’s characteristics. Then when you finally have them down the manufacturer will prob change the formula on you anyways.... like Tom, I use a .310FFLP for most trim and doors. You don’t want your first time spraying to be on a customer job. Buy a cheap hollow core door slab and experiment on that until you get a feel for it. Surface temp, room temp and paint temp can all play a factor. So can humidity.

Brushing is kind of like cooking in a pan, you can see how it’s going and adjust on the fly. Spraying is like baking a cake, you do your part and you’ll see how it looks when it’s done. Even experienced airless sprayers will end up with sags, drips or dry spray sometimes.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:56 PM   #9
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Yes, 2 is a pretty narrow tip even at a 10 orifice so it's putting a lot of paint down on a narrow strip. It's a low pressure tip too. Turn the pressure down until you get a bad pattern, then crank it up just a little. The cheap X5 might be part of the issue. Poor pressure control, more pulsing.

That said, I like a 210 for trim, but I fly.

Also, might consider jumping to emerald urethane. Easier paint to apply.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:10 PM   #10
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


210 6" from the surface you're getting a 2" spot. That should run like crazy.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:13 PM   #11
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Quote:
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210 6" from the surface you're getting a 2" spot. That should run like crazy.
Then he's doing it perfect!!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:17 PM   #12
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Just think a 210, 310, 410 and 510 all have the same .010 orifice opening. The difference is width of the fan. So at the same pressure they are all putting out the same volume of paint but spreading it over a different sized area. The 510 will put it out in a wider fan and you will have to go slower to get the same thickness of paint on the substrate than if you used a 210. So the larger 1st number will allow you to slow down a bit without having the chance for drools. Plus it should make it easier to paint a larger area more consistently than if you used a less wide fan.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:46 PM   #13
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
210 6" from the surface you're getting a 2" spot. That should run like crazy.
Shoot I missed that part. Yeah time to back off!!!
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:51 AM   #14
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


I missed 6" from the surface as well... back up!
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:02 PM   #15
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


OK... so it sounds like I'm too close. I'll try that first. Thanks everyone for the great analysis.

Next question - pressure. The counter rep at SW said to run the pressure through the FFLP210 tip as high as the X5 would go, "Crank it up." By spec that seems to be 3000 psi. That doesn't make sense to me - aren't these "low pressure" tips?

Doesn't higher pressure mean more product being applied? What I was doing is setting it about half way, test spraying, then adjusting a little at a time until I didn't get any tailing. It was probably about half way, maybe a bit more, but no where near "wide open" like the SW guy said.

Have I got this right or could my pressure be too low and somehow that's causing too much product, too?
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:08 PM   #16
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


As Tom mentioned above, make sure you have the correct tip seal in the tip guard. It will have a very small hole compared the the non FFLP tips. The pressure shouldn't have to be cranked up all the way. You want it high enough that it puts on a good pattern. Also, Go with a wider fan, a 210 isn't a great tip for doors, way too many passes. Get a 310 or 410.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:08 PM   #17
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Always set the pressure until the heavy tails just disappear. A faint tail line is acceptable as long as there is no real product build.

For PC I’d expect to be at ~1400psi at the pump, when using a normal airless, a AAA I’d be between 850-875 psi with 12-15 psi of air.

The settings above assume temperature of 70-75F for air and product.

Tom
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:24 PM   #18
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Yup, agreed. Just enough pressure to get rid of the tails. Anything after that is to apply product faster. If you go too high you'll have a heavy center in the fan pattern.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:35 PM   #19
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


A regular RAC seat and seal——a FFLP seat and seal (the smaller diameter holes). You must change both pieces.

Tom
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:46 PM   #20
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Re: New To Airless - Heavy Runs W/ FFLP 210


Good lord. Why do I feel like someone just introduced me to a computer for the first time?? I'm definitely using the correct seat. The first couple of times I cleaned it I watched some videos about removing it and learned that they were different. BUT, I'm not using that little yellow piece. My SW guy said that it was a "solvent seal" so it wasn't needed to spray PC. Doesn't it just go on the bottom of the tip?

I picked up a 310, 312, and a 410. Really hoping something makes a difference on Monday.

So what would I use a 210 for? For doors I guess not, makes sense, but for trim it seemed to be a good fit. 2 1/2" baseboard, shoot it in the center, get some overspray on the walls that shouldn't show and the rest on the paper or subfloor. With a 310 or 410 it seems like I'm going to have a lot of overspray on the walls, and probably end up needing 2 or 3 coats.

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