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Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint

 
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:20 PM   #1
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Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum or any paint talk forums for that matter. I like coming to these forums to look at problems from a different point of view so I can try to give my customer the best quality product for the best price.

I am a 31 yr old Licensed, bonded, and insured painter. Iíve been licensed for 4 years but have been painting for 9. I mostly do small/medium interior/exterior residential. I have also developed my own Ultra fine finish cabinetry painting, at a price 25% less than my competitors. Iím also a one man crew with a one week turn over rate. Business has been booming and its been hard to keep up with demand.

So enough about me, I recently met potential customer who had hired an unlicensed, un-bonded, ďhandymanĒ. He did a horrendous job and she ultimately fired him. But now this sweet old lady is stuck with a half masked, half painted kitchen which is a mess, furniture everywhere, drips everywhere.

He brushed on a heavy primer, leaving brush marks every where. Some areas even have the finish coat brushed on as well, but now she is left with a mess of strokes everywhere. And she is asking for my help

I feel for this lady and I want to help her out but I dont want to have to spend a week sanding and adding it to this poor womanís bill.

She understands that it wont be possible to completely fix the last guys job but Just like all my jobs I want to try and give her the best product I can for the best price that I can. I believe everyone deserves to feel proud about where they live


So thanks for reading this far.

My plan is to just go in and treat it like any other cabinet job. Dissassember doors and hardware, mask and seal in the kitchen area, set up my spray area and dry racks in the garage. Iíd go ahead and wash everything down then HVLP spray with my Titan Capspray, 2 coats of bin Shellac, sanding between coats, maybe a thrird coat of BIN and sanding to try to hide the old brush strokes a bid more. Then once I get it to blend as best I can I can start with my finish coats, 2 coats of rustoleum Sierra Performance Beyond Acrylic Enamel.

Thatís what I would do,

What do you guys think would be the best option in this situation?

Iím curious as to what you all would do, as Iím sure the majority of you have seen and fixed worst.
I respect all the knowledge you OGís have and are willing to share to the youngsters because in maybe 5, 10, or 20 years Iíll remember that one guys answer and get the job done. Or some youngster will listen to my advice and cycle will repeat.

I asked the home owner to send me some pic to upload, they dont really show everything I'd like to show you guys.

I hope to hear back from all you fellow pro's. I will be writing her up a proposal tomorrow morning and I'd like to give her a few different options and an affordable price.

Thanks guys I really appreciate it, I'd really like to help this lady out with a beautiful kitchen without charging her and arm and a leg.

Thanks guys,
-Tom


Whats sad is the cabinets started off as a smooth veneer, had they been sprayed originally they would've looked great.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:34 PM   #2
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


Do you know what product was applied?

Some people pay a lot extra for a brushed finish.

Tom

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Old 08-15-2019, 05:34 PM   #3
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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Do you know what product was applied?

Some people pay a lot extra for a brushed finish.

Tom
Yes, the primer brushed was just your typical zinser oil based primer, and then he brushed on Kelly Moore's Durapoxy (which is a good product) as the finish coat. But I can definitely attest to this guys skill level, he shouldn't be anywhere near a paintbrush.

And it was definitely not what she was looking for lol.

Thank you for your reply, trying to get the ball rolling on this topic.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:35 PM   #4
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


I'd start off by sanding as much of that down as I can first. Then hit the real bad areas with glazing/spot putty. Sand again. Then move forward with priming.

Like Tom mentioned, some people like that brushed look. I don't, but some do.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:49 PM   #5
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


Assuming she's already given the guy the chance to fix it to her satisfaction and you're not getting in the middle of something, I wouldn't put a band-aid on someone else's mistake, but fix it right (it's your rep)... she may be telling you she doesn't expect you to fix it, but she does... that's why you're there...

If these are flat panel doors, which it looks like, why would you not just replace the doors and drawerfronts and give her the look she wanted in the first place (smooth)? You're painting anyway... I'd replace the doors/drawerfronts with some unfinished fronts and paint from scratch using your regular method...

The smooth part is the issue... you can spend the time/labor sanding and filling all that out on the fronts and frames to ensure smoothness, but it'd be cheaper and quicker to replace the fronts and reskin the frames to paint... you could be in and out in the same day or next assuming you pre-paint the fronts off-site...

But all this depends on what she wants to spend to give her the look she's actually after...
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:51 PM   #6
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


Clean, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, topcoat, topcoat.

I use all waterborne products. For primer I'd use 65P Spray Fill.

Tom
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:06 PM   #7
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Assuming she's already given the guy the chance to fix it to her satisfaction and you're not getting in the middle of something, I wouldn't put a band-aid on someone else's mistake, but fix it right (it's your rep)... she may be telling you she doesn't expect you to fix it, but she does... that's why you're there...
From my understanding, the unlicensed guy she hired may have had addiction issues/compulsive gambling issues. Someone this sweet old lady was trying to help out, I guess he had done some other handyman type things for her around the house or for a friend or something. Anyways, she kept giving him money for this and that, a new spray tip, blah blah blah. and then she said ok I'm done with you, get out I will finish it myself. At which she called me and I happened to be at Kelly Moore when she called and she lived around the corner so I said ok the least I can do is see if there is anything I can do to help. We started talking and I was telling her the correct way it should have been done, I even pulled out my titan capspray hvlp gun to see if we could get a decent finish untop of his mess (tested on the back of a drawer panel). It helped level it out a little bit but it was all still a mess, his whole set up was a mess, I wish I had pictures, it was nuts, so unorganized. Anyways, at this point she knew she was in trouble. I told her my plan: spray bin, sand, spray bin, sand, spray finish, spray finish and I think that would be the best I could do and still give you a generous price.


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If these are flat panel doors, which it looks like, why would you not just replace the doors and drawerfronts and give her the look she wanted in the first place (smooth)? You're painting anyway... I'd replace the doors/drawerfronts with some unfinished fronts and paint from scratch using your regular method...
The doors are probably from the 1970 or 1980 and I've never done that type of thing, replace doors and drawerfronts, I'm afraid that may be outside my skill level. You are right though, that probably would be the best method but not something I could help her with and it would probably raise her cost considerably. I wouldn't even know where to find new drawer faces or drawer fronts. And then what about the cabinet boxes themselves?


Quote:
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The smooth part is the issue... you can spend the time/labor sanding and filling all that out on the fronts and frames to ensure smoothness, but it'd be cheaper and quicker to replace the fronts and reskin the frames to paint... you could be in and out in the same day or next assuming you pre-paint the fronts off-site...

But all this depends on what she wants to spend to give her the look she's actually after...
I still have much to learn from you master. I wish I knew how to do what you are suggesting. But unfortunately my skill level stops at painting. I'd like to know how you learned how to reface cabinets.

That's one of the things I realized when I started working for myself, I'm not going to have anyone there to show me how to do new things! Thank god for youtube and forums like this.

I really appreciate your reply, it's enlightened me to look into things for future jobs. Thank you.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:08 PM   #8
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


Even with new doors you still have to sand the wood before priming and the customer has to incur the cost of all new doors, drawer fronts, etc. If you’re running good sanders and paper (Festool or Mirka), sanding what’s there isn’t a huge deal.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:11 PM   #9
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
Clean, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, prime, sand, clean, topcoat, topcoat.

I use all waterborne products. For primer I'd use 65P Spray Fill.

Tom
Hi Tom,
thanks for the reply, I think this is pretty much exactly what I'll end up doing. How does 65p Spray Fill compare to BIN? I've never heard of it, I'm in california so due to EPA laws I may not even have it here.

-Tom P.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:16 PM   #10
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


I would start off by doing a relatively quick sanding on a test area and painting it with 2 coats of a good self leveling paint. I have a feeling that very little of that would show through. All said and done I don't think it would end up being an issue. If there were any areas that were particularly problematic you could fill the low areas and sand it out and go from there.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:18 PM   #11
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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Even with new doors you still have to sand the wood before priming and the customer has to incur the cost of all new doors, drawer fronts, etc. If youíre running good sanders and paper (Festool or Mirka), sanding whatís there isnít a huge deal.
I think I will try this first, I'll do a once over with my Ryobi Mouse and see if it makes a difference on any of the brush strokes, at least to where the BIN will fill in then sand that with a sponge or something.

Thanks for your reply
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:21 PM   #12
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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Hi Tom,
thanks for the reply, I think this is pretty much exactly what I'll end up doing. How does 65p Spray Fill compare to BIN? I've never heard of it, I'm in california so due to EPA laws I may not even have it here.

-Tom P.
65P is part of the Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua line. It was developed to fill the pores in foam so it could be top coated. It is a very high build primer.

I have very little experience with BIN.

You would have to find the SW Products Finishes store that serves your area.

My go to cleaner is Krud Kutter.

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPD...prodno=D61H565

https://www.google.com/search?client...E,lf:1,lf_ui:4

Should find the store in Sacramento in the above line.

Tom

Last edited by tjbnwi; 08-15-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:29 PM   #13
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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I would start off by doing a relatively quick sanding on a test area and painting it with 2 coats of a good self leveling paint. I have a feeling that very little of that would show through. All said and done I don't think it would end up being an issue. If there were any areas that were particularly problematic you could fill the low areas and sand it out and go from there.

I sure hope you're right, there were a few areas on the boxes, specifically the upper box next to the kitchen sink. the light coming through the window hits the sheen and it's ugly, you can see all the stokes. The woman tried doing some sanding her self and it didnt do much but she was using like 120 grit and doing it by hand. I will see if I can work some magic.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:40 PM   #14
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
65P is part of the Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua line. It was developed to fill the pores in foam so it could be top coated. It is a very high build primer.

I have very little experience with BIN.

You would have to find the SW Products Finishes store that serves your area.

My go to cleaner is Krud Kutter.

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPD...prodno=D61H565

https://www.google.com/search?client...E,lf:1,lf_ui:4

Should find the store in Sacramento in the above line.

Tom
Hi Tom,

hah, I know exactly where Sherwin is, I was always brought up on KM products though, lol. My First boss was a SW guy, then my second and last boss I worked for was a KM guy, so once I left working for him I stuck KM, I like the guys there, they've always been a great help so I've never had to go anywhere else. and I've used KM for so long I know how all their products work and get that "feel" for it you now what I mean you just know how its gonna flow because you've used it so much. I will look into the Sherwin Primer this weekend.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:46 PM   #15
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


I'm going to check back tomorrow morning for any more suggestion before I finalize my bid proposal and send it out to the customer. I feel a bit more confident about how I'm going to go about salvaging this job.

Also I've learned and expanded my way of thinking just from talking to you folks. I'm glad I decided to take a chance and ask my questions, and I hope I can help some of you folks in the future as well.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:52 PM   #16
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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I'm going to check back tomorrow morning for any more suggestion before I finalize my bid proposal and send it out to the customer. I feel a bit more confident about how I'm going to go about salvaging this job.

Also I've learned and expanded my way of thinking just from talking to you folks. I'm glad I decided to take a chance and ask my questions, and I hope I can help some of you folks in the future as well.
Based on your posts and experience level doing this type of work, in this case, I'd suggest that you do one of the doors to completion and get her to sign off on what you can do with your equipment/finishes verses her expectations...

I'd charge her a minimum of $100 to do that sample and credit it back to her if she signs off and gives the go ahead to move forward on the whole project... this will cover you on finish, quality and color expectations based on what you're repairing... just be sure to put it all in writing since she had issues with the last guy and so there are no miscommunications...

Last edited by KAP; 08-15-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:00 PM   #17
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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I think I will try this first, I'll do a once over with my Ryobi Mouse and see if it makes a difference on any of the brush strokes, at least to where the BIN will fill in then sand that with a sponge or something.

Thanks for your reply
Definitely consider investing in some better sanders. It will pay for itself very quickly in your line of work. A Festool RTS400 and Festool sand paper will make a job like this exponentially smoother for you.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:41 PM   #18
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


It sounds to me you know your process, I am unfamiliar with the products you mention. I will second that quality sanders will pay for themselves, I have several Festool sanders and they are quality tools that save you time and pay for themselves. In due time consider them as an investment and you wont look back.

Have you considered chemically stripping them? Always my last choice.

At the end of the day, price what you need to if you are wanting to take on this mess, you are under no obligation to price the work for less because she has already paid someone else, she got herself into this mess by going with who she did.

Under promise and over deliver.

Regarding brush strokes - everyone has their preferences, we paint doors for a quality home builder in our area, just his doors. We brush them the way he wants them, he does not want them sprayed or rolled. They turn out beautiful. We also brush a lot of cabinets, again with the right products they turn out perfect, i have had many customers insist on doors and cabinets etc not being sprayed.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:52 PM   #19
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


One of my favorite new toys is a soda blaster.

3rd, 4th, 5th the better sanders with dust extraction

Tom
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:56 PM   #20
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Re: Help Fixing A Hacks Kitchen Cabinets Repaint


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Based on your posts and experience level doing this type of work, in this case, I'd suggest that you do one of the doors to completion and get her to sign off on what you can do with your equipment/finishes verses her expectations... .
Funny you say that, I was just in the garage using the same products the last guy used (I'm sure all our garages look the same, hah.) I happed to have some oil based zinser around and some durapoxy in swiss coffee. I used a few pieces of scrap wood and made the worst looking brush strokes I could make, which was actually a pretty tough feat on its own. I'll let it sit overnight and see if I can sand it down into anything workable within a reasonable amount of time. So we shall see.

Quote:
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I'd charge her a minimum of $100 to do that sample and credit it back to her if she signs off and gives the go ahead to move forward on the whole project... this will cover you on finish, quality and color expectations based on what you're repairing... just be sure to put it all in writing since she had issues with the last guy and so there are no miscommunications...
This is a good idea, I appreciate the tips.

All you guys on here must have years and years experience painting and on the business side of things. I've just been doing it all on my own without guidance or mentor..... I think I'll start a new thread for disusing another topic about the business side of things. I'd appreciate if you guys take a look if you get a chance.
thanks you,
-Tom P.

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