Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior - Painting & Finish Work - Contractor Talk

Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior

 
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:13 PM   #1
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Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


So there I was.......I had painted this single level house 6 months prior. Some of the cedar boards had been replaced when windows were upgraded. I did my standard. The surface was clean. The surface was dull. The surface was dry. The surface was SOUND! I spot primed bare spots, but didnt bother with the new boards because they were pre-primed. Easy peasy! 2 coats of high quality sauce later, things were looking good. Better than good! Client was happy. I was happy. Then the hammer came down. 6 months later, I'm looking at bubbles where the new boards were installed. Only a few boards thankfully. But why would the paint job fail there and nowhere else? Long story short, I found out that the boards were purchased at a local lumberyard. They were taken off the top of a fresh pallet. Those tops boards sat in the sun for who knows how long. The primer was toast. Broken down. Lesson learned. Just because something is pre-primed, don't trust it! Prime it anyway.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:09 AM   #2
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Could be interior moisture just happens to be forcing its way out at that area. In fact, that may be why they had to replace those boards in the first place. Pre-primed boards should not bubble unless it's a major defect in manufacturing of those pre-primed boards, which is unlikely.

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Old 07-09-2015, 01:51 AM   #3
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


The last house I painted for money was on the coast. I washed and primed. It bubbled. Painted it again, it bubbled. Scraped and primed repai ted. Painted that house five times. Tried peel bond, oil. Nothing worked.

Let me just finish by reiterating the last house I painted for money I painted five times. Paid that guy three thousand dollars to leave town over three weekends over the course of 18 months and work on his home.
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Old 07-09-2015, 02:11 AM   #4
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


The science of painting is still trying to figure out that one.

Some say it's the paint drying process that causes bubbles to reappear, others say it's something else.

It's not been determined conclusively.

I've had that happen. An old 1920 house that was originally stained and then got painted out solid colored. Maybe it was that first paint job over the old stain that causes future coats to bubble up. It's a real SOB, I can tell ya that.

Now, I look for such signs of previous paint that bubbled up that's had to be scraped and repainted. I write in my contract that such future bubbling may occur and will be an additional charge to correct, if that occurs. The bubbling had nothing to do with interiour moisture escaping outwards. The bubbling happened just a day later, not enough time for it to be a moisture problem.

Some have conjectured that as the paint dries, it heats up just enough to cause the bubbles. Noones figured it out yet.

Last edited by Caslon; 07-09-2015 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 07-09-2015, 07:23 AM   #5
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


I have to agree with what has been said. I also agree that preprimed, even for interior use, can cause problems.

For wood siding, I only use unprimed, just to control exactly what is on the boards when I'm done.
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:27 AM   #6
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


I prime everything.........Pre primed or not. Particularly exterior stuff.
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:32 PM   #7
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Priming pre-primed wood ? Okie dokie. I trust in pre-primed wood not needing such, but that's just me, I don't like working more than I have to. I've never been let down yet.

Last edited by Caslon; 07-09-2015 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-09-2015, 03:52 PM   #8
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Look around at the neighbors and make sure no one has highly reflective (low e) windows that could be heating the surface. I've seen this before.
Heat and/or moisture are what cause this, in my experience.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:26 AM   #9
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


The primer was toast. Broken down. Lesson learned. Just because something is pre-primed, don't trust it! Prime it anyway.


IMO if the primer has started to fail putting another coat of primer on top will not help. Simply stay away from pre primed, you never know how old it is or how good.

In my experience bubbles happen when moisture is trapped between an oil coat and latex, it can't escape through the oil so it pushes out the latex.
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:07 PM   #10
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


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Originally Posted by carzie View Post
The primer was toast. Broken down. Lesson learned. Just because something is pre-primed, don't trust it! Prime it anyway.

The factory pre-primed wood was faulty? We gotta have a word with that robot at that factory. Broken down primer? Pre-primed wood lasts a good 6 months or more.

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Old 07-14-2015, 08:15 PM   #11
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Originally Posted by carzie View Post
The primer was toast. Broken down. Lesson learned. Just because something is pre-primed, don't trust it! Prime it anyway.

That was a quote from the OP, I have no idea if the primer was faulty, and yes primer is only good for so long before it needs to be top coated, as I'm sure you would know. 6 months is a long time to sit in a yard exposed to the elements without a top coat and if you can tell us exactly how long ago that was pre primed please tell.
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Old 07-21-2015, 09:56 AM   #12
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


No one can do your job as you can do it yourself..
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Old 07-21-2015, 07:47 PM   #13
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


This scenario still sounds weird to me. I've dealt with weathered primer before. . . years ago I painted a house that had pre-primed Hardie that was installed and ignored for 2 years. I used paint+primer and thought I was good to go. But, the siding soaked up the paint like crazy and flashed bad. We had to put on 3 coats to get good coverage. I was kicking myself for not starting with a coat of primer! But the paint job still looks good.

I've only seen paint bubble when there was a chemical process happening under the new latex paint - like when you paint Quad that hasn't fully cured. Or when there is oil/grease involved. I'd be back at the lumber yard asking for an explanation. My guess is that everyone who used those boards is having the same problem!
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:10 AM   #14
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


There is no way of knowing how long the pre primed has sat out or where it came from or if something was spilled on it. And just a wild guess but maybe the company used a cheap primer to start with. Just me but I sand and re-prime.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:52 AM   #15
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Regardless of the paint, bubbles mean something is trapped inside that has worked to the surface. The factory could have rushed the process and primed too soon. I don't trust pre-primed wood for that reason and how good is the primer anyway? All primers are not the same, maybe some bean counter found a cheaper product.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:16 AM   #16
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Quote:
Originally Posted by RangoWA View Post
Regardless of the paint, bubbles mean something is trapped inside that has worked to the surface. The factory could have rushed the process and primed too soon. I don't trust pre-primed wood for that reason and how good is the primer anyway? All primers are not the same, maybe some bean counter found a cheaper product.
Companies make their bones selling pre-primed wood that doesn't bubble up. It's not like someone didn't check the moisture content of the wood before it went into the automated priming process at the factory. That just doesn't happen. The boards moisture content is thoroughly determined before they enter the priming process, so count that out.

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Old 07-29-2015, 07:01 AM   #17
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Quote:
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Companies make their bones selling pre-primed wood that doesn't bubble up. It's not like someone didn't check the moisture content of the wood before it went into the automated priming process at the factory. That just doesn't happen. The boards moisture content is thoroughly determined before they enter the priming process, so count that out.
I don't count anything out and prefer to know what the primer is. Some people trust Jiffy Lube, I don't.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:41 PM   #18
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Re: Food For Thought About A Few Peeling Boards....exterior


Quote:
Originally Posted by RangoWA View Post
I don't count anything out and prefer to know what the primer is. Some people trust Jiffy Lube, I don't.
Then spend an excessive amount of time inquiring about just what particular primer they use at that factory. Good luck with that. Most pre-primed boards at the factory are primed using computer technology to measure the moisture content of the wood to be factory primed. Question that.

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