Flash / Dark Colors ?? - Painting & Finish Work - Contractor Talk

Flash / Dark Colors ??

 
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:05 PM   #1
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Flash / Dark Colors ??


I just completed a job painting a house with horiz cedar lap siding. Built in about 1970 and previously painted say 15 yrs ago with flat latex in a dark redwood color. The siding was in good shape. previous latex looks pretty good. After cleaning, scraping, priming, applied 1 coat SW A100 flat in the same dark redwood color.

From a distance it looks great. But up close there's a significant amount of flash as in uneven drying or absorbtion. It's not limited to where I scraped and primed. I did the front and it didn't look too good to me. I do believe it dried too fast. I then went with some XIM 2 oz / gal and my helper and myself worked horiz keeping a wet edge and extended the drying from minutes to about 1 - 1.5 hr. Even cutting in and brushing out while wet the cut in flashes ?? I put a second coat on the front (on me) 1 coat on all the other siding. Still the same flash effect.

I usually use Flotrol but I read here that XIM is superior so I tried it. I don't think the additive is the problem. It was mid 80's on a shaded lot, great conditions.

The house is in an estate and for sale. I pointed it out to the customer, they say it looks ok. I brought up that a second coat would not be worth the money...the 1 coat covered great...but the flash bothers me...Next time I might not be so lucky.

Any input on working this out next time would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:42 AM   #2
 
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


The first thing to do is get off the A-100 line. Its ok as a primer but its crap as finish coat. Super Paint would be a much better option and still a decent price. If your painting for a HO that is going to be there for awhile then go with Duration. Charlie

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Old 09-12-2008, 09:11 PM   #3
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


Well I can't figure out how something with no sheen flashes....
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:44 AM   #4
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


It might actually have what's called a matte finish. Some paints or primers do not have a true flat finish. I know also that deep base and ultra deep base colors do funky things because of the tint system. Ben Moore has come up with a new tint system that they use in their "Aura" brand paint. I haven't had any experience with the exterior Aura but I can tell you colors like reddish orange used to take up to five to seven coats for coverage on interiors now cover in two two three coats. It's expensive, $50 plus per gallon but you save on the labor end. I also use the "Duration brand paint by SW and I like it as well. Hope this helps a little
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:21 PM   #5
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


The deep base colors like red are always a PITA. In those situations I try to role over my cut as close as possible. As posted before, the A100 is cheaper and therefore not as good as say the Duration.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:52 PM   #6
 
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


TINT the O I L primer to the selected shade and B O X the material before attempting the task
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:38 AM   #7
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


Thanks for the replies.

Using flat I thought for sure no chance at flash. But the A 100 does have a sheen / matte finish. I'll have to find a flat , flat paint to use in the future. I may test some Super Paint. I've used Duration but not in the cards on this job. I wanted to use a quality product to cover in 1 coat since the cedar siding w/ grain had not been painted in 15 yrs. I did use a roller rig / brush out on the siding but it sure did flash.

I don't take every painting job but this was all flat work. Alum Soffit, Repl Windows wrapped. Just the siding remained. I painted full time for a few yrs when I started and keep up with the trade.

I though I was on easy street going into the job, $1600 net for me for the weeks work. Just goes to show ?? Took addl time / mat to work it out. I don't like foul ups...and it upset me somewhat.

Thanks again.

Steve
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:27 PM   #8
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


Hang in there ....experience is the best teacher. Sometimes it is more costly and painful than at other times. Since most of our work is working inside peoples homes around furnishings I am always in damage control mode. Even with insurance it just looks bad if something is broken in the painting process. As far as screwing up on the painting end. It happens even to the old timers.

I'll leave you with an inside tip: If your working inside over hardwood floor inspect the floors before painting to see if the last painter left paint specs. If you see them then point it out in a diplomatic way to the HO. Nine times out of ten they'll say they "hadn't noticed that old paint on the floor". By doing this you won't get blamed for sloppyness. Better yet you won't get back charged for someone else's mistake.

Sal
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:23 PM   #9
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


Since its a dark color and you mentioned it gave the appearance of drying to fast I have to ask...were you painting this part of the house in the sun? If so was it warm that day? Particularly with darker colors that can lead to issues, sometimes the surface will even look blistered too, I know you didnt mention that but I just had to ask anyway.

Also agreed with the poster above about not using A-100 as a finish coat, I don't even offer it to customers unless they ask and then I will tell them we use higher quality products. Super Paint is pretty much where I start as far as SWP coatings go. If the sheen is uneven still and you are going to go over it with a true flat, just remember for the purposes of keeping the new coat on the siding you're going to want to get rid of the sheen from the coat of A-100 you just did
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:49 PM   #10
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Since its a dark color and you mentioned it gave the appearance of drying to fast I have to ask...were you painting this part of the house in the sun? If so was it warm that day? Particularly with darker colors that can lead to issues, sometimes the surface will even look blistered too, I know you didnt mention that but I just had to ask anyway.

Also agreed with the poster above about not using A-100 as a finish coat, I don't even offer it to customers unless they ask and then I will tell them we use higher quality products. Super Paint is pretty much where I start as far as SWP coatings go. If the sheen is uneven still and you are going to go over it with a true flat, just remember for the purposes of keeping the new coat on the siding you're going to want to get rid of the sheen from the coat of A-100 you just did

Not in the sun. Shaded lot mid 80's good condition. Working opposite from the sun. Applying horiz with a helper. After putting in the XIM the drying signature was as good as it gets, 1 - 1.5 hr.

Please clarify ? If I overcoat with a true flat...the sheen from the A 100 will flash through ??

Next question..? Super Paint has a true flat ?

Interior A 100 ?
A lot is used by production painters, re - coat, res & comm here. No A 100 for interior either, or it's ok for you ???

Anyway - I'm going to go pick up the check right now. I guess I'll get any final feedback.

Last edited by We Fix Houses; 09-17-2008 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:24 PM   #11
 
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


Didnt notice you said 1 coat the first time, sometimes 1 coat can leave flashes or the looks of brushstrokes, just needs another coat. If your going to apply 1 coat and stay in the SW line go with Duration next time, goes on as thick as 2 coats and Never seen it flash. Never under any conditions should you use anyone cheapest line and go 1 coat not even inside in my book. Charlie
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:22 AM   #12
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Re: Flash / Dark Colors ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by We Fix Houses View Post
Please clarify ? If I overcoat with a true flat...the sheen from the A 100 will flash through ??
Painting over a higher sheen can sometimes cause flaking/peeling as the newer coat will not adhere as well to the previous coat. This usually wont show itself immediately though, and its worse with higher gloss paints obviously so its not a huge concern for you, but you may want to feel the surface, and if it feels "sheeny" give it a quick sand before putting on the true flat over the Previous coat. As for your other question regarding the A-100 primarily I do exteriors/decks not interiors but occasionally we will...however I've never used A-100, as far as SWP products go for interior walls, usually either interior Super Paint, Duration, or Cashmere...only one other SWP product have i ever used on an interior and it was ProMar

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