Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful - Painting & Finish Work - Contractor Talk

Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful

 
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Old 05-31-2006, 02:55 PM   #1
 
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Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


I don't use SF to quote...rather, I determine the job by manhours (paint, prep, setup, drive time, etc) materials plus a mark up for overhead.

I'm pretty good at determining how many manhours it takes me to roll a smooth interior wall, but I'm still working on determining manhours for cutting.

I know every situation is different, for example, rolling and cutting a 12 x 10 bedroom is different than rolling and cutting a galley kitchen.

So let's keep it simple and talk about interior smooth walls. Let's say I will be painting a wall that is 60(L) x 8(H). That's 480 SF. Generally speaking, I can roll 350 SF per hour. So rolling that wall will take me approx. 1 hour and 20 min. I usually estimate "cutting" this wall to be about 50% of the roll time...so "cutting in" will take me about 40 min. By "cutting in" I mean cutting in the ceiling, the baseboards (assuming baseboards are a different colour) and both sides of the wall.

Bottom line, that wall would take me 2 hours to paint (cut and roll). this excludes any time for surface prep or set up. Again, I am just interested in the cutting time.

Does that ratio - 50% of the rolling time, sound too high for determine the cutting time?? It's a ball park estimate that I use for every job and for every room...it helps me simplify a formula...it's funny I have never really timed myself for cutting.

I know with time and experience, I will have a better sense, but this is what I use presently.

Your comments please. Do you have a formula? Thanks.

Zeebo
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:50 PM   #2
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


cutting in how many linear feat can you go per hour. so if you have a room that has no doors and no windows and all you have to do is cut down four wall and around the top and around the botttom, figure how many linear ft you can go per hour, i can usually go about 100 to 125 lf per hour. I hope this made sence. kind of like cuting around a window is 20LF.

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Old 05-31-2006, 04:01 PM   #3
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


Not a formula like that, a % of rolling
I add the windows and doors to the linear footage, and have rates for an avg. window and door
Unless it's unusual...I'll measure those and go linear

I also don't price by the foot, though I use that as a tool to help me determine price
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:28 PM   #4
 
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


Yes, I understand what both of you are saying. I used to use a LF calculation but got away from it because of sheer laziness. I use a LF calcuation for moldings, baseboards, door frames,etc. say 120 LF per hour. Maybe I should go back to that method. I just wanted something quick and easy.

Thanks for the info.

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Old 05-31-2006, 11:00 PM   #5
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


If you try to break down your production rates too much or too specific, you will go insane trying to track all of them. I use brush/roll as one rate. If it is a cut-o-rama, then I jack up the time, like 1.5, or 2X the normal.
Works for me.
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Old 06-01-2006, 07:09 AM   #6
 
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


Quote:
Originally Posted by ProWallGuy
If you try to break down your production rates too much or too specific, you will go insane trying to track all of them. I use brush/roll as one rate. If it is a cut-o-rama, then I jack up the time, like 1.5, or 2X the normal.
Works for me.

Can you give me an example of what you mean by "use brush/roll as one rate"?
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Old 06-01-2006, 08:34 AM   #7
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


I know this sounds silly - but I have taken notes on how long it has taken me to roll a room and cut a room. Obviously conditions are different from room to room. But after a while I use a number that's higher than my average. So say - I have come to the conclusion that for every 385 sq. feet of gross wall space{area containing windows and doors} I can roll that in 1 hour. And in that same area I have about 1.5 hours of cutting time. So now I take the total area of a room - and figure my rolling time and cutting time. And if it looks cut up - I tack on more money.

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:37 PM   #8
 
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainPainter
I know this sounds silly - but I have taken notes on how long it has taken me to roll a room and cut a room. Obviously conditions are different from room to room. But after a while I use a number that's higher than my average. So say - I have come to the conclusion that for every 385 sq. feet of gross wall space{area containing windows and doors} I can roll that in 1 hour. And in that same area I have about 1.5 hours of cutting time. So now I take the total area of a room - and figure my rolling time and cutting time. And if it looks cut up - I tack on more money.

-plainpainter

This does not sound silly at all...I think taking notes is a very creative way to learn about how good you are...your skill level....as well as charging appropriate manhours. I too can roll about 350-400SF in one hour. I would then usually just cut the time in half and that would give me my cutting time. So 350 SF would demand 1 hour of rolling and 30 min of cutting. Maybe I am short changing myself?

I just came back from pricing a job this morning and I probably added on an extra 30 min by using the LF method to determine cutting time. Too long for me...I'm looking for something quick and easy.

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Old 06-01-2006, 02:25 PM   #9
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeebo
Can you give me an example of what you mean by "use brush/roll as one rate"?
Here is an example, the room dimensions will be accurate, but the rates will be hypothetical.

10X10 bedroom, 1 3X3 window, 1 7X3 door

This is what I DON'T do:

Roll - 320 sq ft walls - roll 320 sq ft 1 man hour
Cut in - 40 ln ft ceiling line, 40 ln ft baseboard, 17 ln ft door, 12 ln ft window, total 109 ln ft cut in = .5 man hours
Total 1.5 manhours

What I DO do:

Brush/roll 320 sq ft walls, 1 door, 1 window = 1.5 manhours
I know that this is a basic bedroom configuration, and my manhours are figured accordingly. If the number of doors, windows, etc changes, or its a harder cut like heavy textured walls up against stained trim, then I adjust as needed.

If the room has 6 windows and 3 doors, then this is a 'cut-o-rama', and I adjust my 1.5 hours up by 1.5X or 2X = 2.25 hours or 3 hours, judging by the looks of it.

I try to keep it simple enough to use easily, but detailed enough to be effective.
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Old 06-02-2006, 05:12 PM   #10
 
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Re: Determining Manhours For Rolling Vs. Cutting - Your Suggestions Would Be Helpful


thanks for the feedback...I think I understand

Have a great weekend...I have to paint for the next 3 days.

Zeebo

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