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Ceramic Additives

 
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Old 01-12-2004, 07:22 PM   #1
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Ceramic Additives


Is anyone offering ceramic additives for exterior jobs? If so, how well is it selling, what products are you adding them to, and what is your % markup for it?

Friend of mine is offering a ceramic additive to Sherwin Williams Duration and customers are buying it up!

Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:23 PM   #2
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
Is anyone offering ceramic additives for exterior jobs? If so, how well is it selling, what products are you adding them to, and what is your % markup for it?

Friend of mine is offering a ceramic additive to Sherwin Williams Duration and customers are buying it up!

Thanks!


OK Nathan, I'll bite. Please explain. What, how, benifits?

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Old 01-14-2004, 05:07 PM   #3
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Ceramic additives can be added to paint to extend the life of the product. (at least thats what they say.) You've heard the ads for Liquid Ceramic on the radio around Orlando right? http://www.liquidceramic.com/index.htm

Its basically just paint with a ceramic additive added. So some painters are just adding it themselves.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:31 PM   #4
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Thank you for the link…

I had an inquiry about exterior ceramic from a client. It looks like you need to buy a distributorship to use it. I think elastomeric started about the same way before it became available in paint stores. Where is your friend getting it?

I will check into it further. The testimonials look good.

Also, I thought Duration was mainly for wood fascia and trim. Is your friend painting the whole house with it?

Thanks.

ps. The country stations I listen to mainly have these screaming ads for auto dealers. I guess I need to get a little more refined and listen to some different music every once in a while.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:34 PM   #5
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Re: Ceramic Additives


He's not using liquid ceramic but he is adding a ceramic additive to duration. And yes, from what I understand he is painting stucco homes with it.

I'm not promoting the idea... just askin'
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:52 PM   #6
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Re: Ceramic Additives


I spoke with the manufacturer of Liquid Ceramic and found out that it is NOT paint with ceramic added to it. It is part of the formulation in a complex acrylic solution. He said there are about 25-30 ingredients in Liquid Ceramic, whereas most paints have 7-12 ingredients.

They also cautioned me in adding ceramic to Duration or any paint I use. It may very well CANCEL THE WARRANTY given on the paint. Think about it - - say you've got a failure using Sherwin William's Duration and you tell them you added some ceramic powder because you heard someone else did it. Do you really think Sherwin Williams is going to refund your money or re-do the job you just finished and are having to do over again?

More info is at www.LiquidCeramic.com
 
Old 02-23-2004, 10:19 PM   #7
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Re: Ceramic Additives


I agree with the above. I've never heard of anyone adding ceramic directly to the paint. From what I've heard about Duration, it shouldn't need any additives.

On the interior side, Muralo and Ben Moore have paints they tout as having a ceramic like finish. And both paints are supposedly very scrubbable, even in flat.

Are these paints anything like the AcryliClad (sp?) that the NAPP promotes?
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Old 04-22-2004, 09:24 PM   #8
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Re: Ceramic Additives


I work for Sherwin-Williams-

If you add Liquid Ceramic, Liquid Titanium, gold or diamonds or anything other than recommended by S.W. to Duration, it will void all warranties-

I HIGHLY recommend that you do NOT do it!

I have not heard any feedback (positive or negative) about ceramic coatings, but I would assume that a company such as Sherwin Williams, Benj Moore or PPG would be making it if it worked so well. So far (to the best of my knowledge) none of the leading paint manufacturers are making a ceramic coating.
 
Old 04-23-2004, 07:17 AM   #9
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Re: Ceramic Additives


I just talked to a guy who is a distributor for this company. Ceramic additives for int/ext paint. Interesting stuff.

Hy-tech sales
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:18 AM   #10
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Well, the main thing I worry about are the warranty that people are giving with these products. I've heard everything from 10 years to lifetime guarantees. I would hate to have a customer call me back in 15 years and ask to have their house repainted for free.

hmmmm, I have someone who works for Sherwin Williams on the board... now I just have to convince them to advertise!
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Old 08-02-2004, 11:48 AM   #11
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
Ceramic additives can be added to paint to extend the life of the product. (at least thats what they say.) You've heard the ads for Liquid Ceramic on the radio around Orlando right? http://www.liquidceramic.com/index.htm

Its basically just paint with a ceramic additive added. So some painters are just adding it themselves.
I've done some research into this product called Liquid Ceramic that you refer to. I've spoke directly with the manufacturer and even to end users who've had this product applied 20+ years ago. I'm impressed with what I have found. It's definitely NOT paint with ceramic added to it (which DOES void the warranty of regular paint if you add it). The ceramic in Liquid Ceramic is formulated into a 100% acrylic solution. It's not an afterthought. My biggest surprise is that contrary to EVERYTHING that you read elsewhere, it looks like a great paint job when applied BUT is a THICKER SKIN than what you'd get with Sherwin Williams Duration or PPG's Timeless product made by PPG. I was impressed that Liquid Ceramic gives me a true 5-mil thickness on one coat. It would take OVER two coats of Duration to give me a 5-mil thickness. Thickness isn't everything, but I know Liquid Ceramic's been on buildings for 20+ years, having spoke with maintenance directors overseeing large buildings in the pacific northwest. Duration's been around less than 5 years. This is a no brainer!
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Old 08-02-2004, 06:32 PM   #12
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Re: Ceramic Additives


...why not just use Graham Aqua Borne interior/exterior Ceramic? If its available in your area it a good product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
Is anyone offering ceramic additives for exterior jobs? If so, how well is it selling, what products are you adding them to, and what is your % markup for it?

Friend of mine is offering a ceramic additive to Sherwin Williams Duration and customers are buying it up!

Thanks!
 
Old 01-12-2005, 11:14 PM   #13
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Bump!

Any new info on this? I'm starting to hear more and more about it from my competitors.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:20 PM   #14
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Removed


Last edited by Nathan; 03-01-2006 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 03-14-2005, 01:42 PM   #15
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Hello,
Anyone interested in learning more about true ceramic additives and coatings is invited to visit our website at
We try to provide a great deal of accurate information on our entire product line. If you need any additional assistance you can email me through this forum or our website.

Last edited by Nathan; 03-01-2006 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 03-14-2005, 04:09 PM   #16
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Tony,

Why have no major paint companies (Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, Porter, etc..) produced a ceramic brand of their own if its such a great product?

I'm not trying to sound negative but a few painters here in Central Florida offer your product and I'm very skeptical. They seem to take advantage of consumers by selling them a paint job for 3-4 times what a good paint job should cost and then tell them that they will never have to paint again. I don't buy that at all.

Convince me and I'll start offering it.

Thanks.
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Old 03-14-2005, 04:20 PM   #17
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Re: Ceramic Additives


There are some great ceramic paints like Grahams Ceramic but they are formulated like that.
I would think that if you ADDED something to their formulation you're on your own if any problems come up. just my 2cents.
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Old 03-15-2005, 11:45 AM   #18
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Re: Ceramic Additives


You're not being negative at all. These are excellent questions that we get asked every day.

Major paint manufacturers do not offer products like these for several reasons. Typically, major corporations are skeptical of anything they didn't come up with themsleves. It's a slightly arrogant attitude that we found when we approached several of them when we first started. Once our product had been out for some time and there was proof that it worked, we began getting contacted by several of these companies. There are very few of these companies that have not tried to reverse engineer our additive because they don't want to buy it. Just last week samples were sent to another of these "household names".

Another reason, probably the most important one, is the massive amount of mis-information and poor quality products that are marketed to consumers and contractors by entities whose only interest is in making a fast buck. It's people like this that give the entire industry a bad name.

As far as Central Florida, there are indeed several companies doing exactly what you say they are. They are not using our products, I can assure you of that.
I'm a 3rd generation painter myself. Our company did not come to this industry via some other background. Anyone who has been in the painting business knows there is no such thing as a 'one coating fits all' solution, or a "lifetime" paint job of any kind. Saying anything to the contrary and charging ridiculous sums of money is, in my opinion, deplorable and inexcusable.

Let's not forget that any warranty is only as good as the company that offers it...and lasts as long as the company is around. Maybe some Central Florida painters remember Sears Painting Service (Mastercraft Builders) and their "20 year warranty"?

If anyone was using our products and telling customers this....they won't be selling our products any longer. I guarantee it...because it's already happened.

We work very hard to put good products and accurate information into the marketplace. We've been in Brevard for over 50 years, and are in this for the long haul.

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
Tony,

Why have no major paint companies (Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, Porter, etc..) produced a ceramic brand of their own if its such a great product?

I'm not trying to sound negative but a few painters here in Central Florida offer your product and I'm very skeptical. They seem to take advantage of consumers by selling them a paint job for 3-4 times what a good paint job should cost and then tell them that they will never have to paint again. I don't buy that at all.

Convince me and I'll start offering it.

Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:30 PM   #19
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Hi Dale,
From what I can see, the Grahams product is a ceramic paint designed for durability and washability. While ceramic paints of this type work, they use a completely different type of "ceramic" than we do. Our products are designed to insulate by reflecting heat back to the source. Paint the outside....cooler in summer. Paint the inside...warmer in winter.

As far as formulation, adding certain ingredients in the right order is critical with many components...but not ceramics. Dispersants, surfactants, even pigments are chemicals and have to be added in at a particular point in the manufacturing process. Ceramics are inert and can be added at any time, even in the field, without changing one aspect of the paint. I'd love to be able to convince people that it is highly scientific and must be mixed into the mill at precisely the right moment, then charge them $100 for a gallon of paint, but it's simply not true and not the way we choose to make our living.

Regarding warranty from the manufacturer, they have to say that it's voided by adding anything to cover themselves. If ceramics truly voids a warranty then wouldn't mildewcides, insecticides, flow agents, even non-skid additives for decks? Do products like these work and have many of us used them? Have they ruined paint? Yet they tell us to thin with water if necessary. I don't know many people who can absolutely guarantee that tap or well water is completely free of contaminants.

Paint warranties are pretty basic if you ever really get into one. Basically it's some version of "we guarantee this product to be of good quality at the time it leaves the factory. Because we can't control what goes on in the field....open the can and you're on your own". Most truly defective paint will show itself quickly, not years down the road, and the differences between bad paint and incorrect prep/application are pretty easy to pin down. Most professional company reps will stand behind a truly defective product regardless.

Is adding something to the paint a "gamble"? Maybe. But it's up to the end user to determine the potential benefits and possibility of problems. Quality ceramic additives will insulate what you apply them to, and have not caused one single coating failure yet. Pretty good odds so far.

Thanks.

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
There are some great ceramic paints like Grahams Ceramic but they are formulated like that.
I would think that if you ADDED something to their formulation you're on your own if any problems come up. just my 2cents.
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:10 PM   #20
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Re: Ceramic Additives


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hy-Tech Sales
Hi Dale,
From what I can see, the Grahams product is a ceramic paint designed for durability and washability. While ceramic paints of this type work, they use a completely different type of "ceramic" than we do. Our products are designed to insulate by reflecting heat back to the source. Paint the outside....cooler in summer. Paint the inside...warmer in winter.

As far as formulation, adding certain ingredients in the right order is critical with many components...but not ceramics. Dispersants, surfactants, even pigments are chemicals and have to be added in at a particular point in the manufacturing process. Ceramics are inert and can be added at any time, even in the field, without changing one aspect of the paint. I'd love to be able to convince people that it is highly scientific and must be mixed into the mill at precisely the right moment, then charge them $100 for a gallon of paint, but it's simply not true and not the way we choose to make our living.

Regarding warranty from the manufacturer, they have to say that it's voided by adding anything to cover themselves. If ceramics truly voids a warranty then wouldn't mildewcides, insecticides, flow agents, even non-skid additives for decks? Do products like these work and have many of us used them? Have they ruined paint? Yet they tell us to thin with water if necessary. I don't know many people who can absolutely guarantee that tap or well water is completely free of contaminants.

Paint warranties are pretty basic if you ever really get into one. Basically it's some version of "we guarantee this product to be of good quality at the time it leaves the factory. Because we can't control what goes on in the field....open the can and you're on your own". Most truly defective paint will show itself quickly, not years down the road, and the differences between bad paint and incorrect prep/application are pretty easy to pin down. Most professional company reps will stand behind a truly defective product regardless.

Is adding something to the paint a "gamble"? Maybe. But it's up to the end user to determine the potential benefits and possibility of problems. Quality ceramic additives will insulate what you apply them to, and have not caused one single coating failure yet. Pretty good odds so far.

Thanks.

Tony
Tony,
Thanks for the reply and explaination.

So if I'm understanding you correctly your additives are basically for adding an insulation factor while the commercially available ceramics like Grahams provide greater general "paint qualities" like durability and scrubability, flow, etc.?

Thanks, Dale

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