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Advice For Painting Cabinets

 
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:01 PM   #1
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Advice For Painting Cabinets


I have a client (sister-inlaw) that I am doing a fair sized Reno for. We have decided that painting the cabinets is the way we will go. She had a painter come in and do a sample. She was very unhappy with the brush strokes.

So we have decided I will spray them. I don't have much exp with this. But I would like to do this and then do my own kitchen. Also I have clients who on occasion ask to have vanities painted.

I guess I'm looking for advice on what paint to use, what sealer, as well as what sprayer?

I am looking at a
Titan
XT290 Paint Sprayer
Not sure what tip I should use though?

Thanks for any advice guys
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #2
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Just...don't

If you are bound and determined to do so, then by all means. A total cost setup could run you thousands easily, including room, fans, racks, and so on.

The material can be anything from water based to lacquer to conversion varnish to polyeurethane. Tip sizes can vary according to base material and viscosity.

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Old 04-06-2014, 05:32 PM   #3
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


I like the Fuji HVLP systems. Here's a past thread on the subject:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/fin...ndation-146305

I don't think that the Titan is a good choice for starting to finish cabinets. It has too much power, too much system to clean and too much waste, unless you're planning only to use standard latex house paints. There's a good chance I'm really just describing my own limitations, but that's my thinking. Some guys are wizards with an airless, just not me.

There's some merit to Kent's caution. You don't have to go for the full room, racks, etc., but doing it right takes some investment and some time learning how to do it right. If you don't plan to invest the money and time, you're better off finding a local shop that will do the painting for you.



What finish to use? Depends on your project, the state of the cabinets, what's available to you locally, your customer's requirements, etc.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:20 PM   #4
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Hahaha..... I figure did get the don't do it advice!! But the kitchen is demo'd now. I am basically going to seal off the kitchen and go for it.

I was more curious if airless is the best method to apply. Or if I should just get the sprayer for a compressor. Would one give a better finish?
I've used airless before when painting entire house. Used for primer and trim.

I believe she wants the cabinets painted Benjamin Moore cc40 but I'm trying to find out what is a suitable paint.

The cabinets are currently a white washed wood. Obviously I need to sand them down first. And dust removal is a biggie.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:29 PM   #5
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


I personally use an air assisted airless. This is what most of the cabinet makers I know use. From the advice of quite a few, it sounds like the Fuji is a pretty outstanding product too. I don't have any advice to give you on those systems, but I know that the AAA types really kick ass. But they start at $2K.

Once you get into it, then you may have unknown issues with the finish that will drive you crazy. If you are just jumping right into it with not much testing, trying, information, advice...you may lose some sleep. I know I told myself that I was going to do it no matter what and I lost my shirt on my first one I was fortunate to have someone to call WHEN I had problems, not IF.

Waterbased will tend to take much longer than solvents to dry, plus you need to be careful not coating too thick or it will run, and you will be pissed.

It's not easy, but it is possible. It may be the toughest thing you ever try to figure out. I know I still have an occasional issue that stumps me, and I'm 3+ years into it.

I don't know many who use an airless to do it though. It's probably possible, but don't know what kind of finish to expect. From the lack of people doing it, there may be a good reason for it.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:37 PM   #6
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


If you're determined to do it, and don't want to spring for a complete HVLP system, you can try an HVLP conversion gun. It will give you HVLP application (sort of) from a compressor.

To get good results, you need a good gun. The time-tested way to get there is to start off with a cheap HF or Husky or Wagner. You paint a couple of cabinets, and are pretty happy with the results. On the next project you suspect that you could get better results with a better gun, and sure enough, it's easier and the results are better. On the third project you spring for a pro gun or full HVLP setup and realize that the results on your first 2 projects were complete crap.

A cheap HF or Husky will set you back $69. Go for it.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:42 PM   #7
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Good comments from Kent. One of the significant issues with just putting a conversion gun on your compressor is that the cold temperature and high relative humidity coming out of the compressor can wreak havoc with many finishes. If you're working with pigmented water-born paints, you'll probably be OK.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:25 PM   #8
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
If you're determined to do it, and don't want to spring for a complete HVLP system, you can try an HVLP conversion gun. It will give you HVLP application (sort of) from a compressor.

To get good results, you need a good gun. The time-tested way to get there is to start off with a cheap HF or Husky or Wagner. You paint a couple of cabinets, and are pretty happy with the results. On the next project you suspect that you could get better results with a better gun, and sure enough, it's easier and the results are better. On the third project you spring for a pro gun or full HVLP setup and realize that the results on your first 2 projects were complete crap.

A cheap HF or Husky will set you back $69. Go for it.
I have to disagree with parts of your post.If you are charging for the job and presenting yourself as a pro then you better be able to do a pro finish.We all have to learn somehow but if your in the business you also have to make money.Spending money and time on a couple half assed pray rigs and taking the time to practice with them is going to do nothing but cost money.
I would suggest buying the best air assisted airless or hvlp conversion you can afford and do your own cabinets first.It will be a real learning experienceand you won't have to worr about the customer.Even if it's family.Those can be the toughest ones to deal wit.
I owned a custom cabinet shop for several years and prefer the hvlp conversion and air assisted airless over the straight HVLP guns.If you are spraying the cases in place the HVLP would be less of a problem to set up and move.It may just be me but I always got better results from the conversion guns or AAA.I did have air driers and water filters in the line but found them easier to adjust and get better atomization with.
I sprayed everything from shellac to latex to Cat lac.If I were going to do your project I would spray a color coat of what ever color latex you wanted and then lightly sand and clear coat over.
Why start out and learn on junk equipment just to have to relearn on good equipment that has a certain learning curve of it's own .Other than that I agree with the above advice.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:36 PM   #9
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


All good reply's so far. It IS a big investment to do it right, and if you want professional results, your going to have to buy professional grade sprayers.

This dining room was burled walnut and mahogany and the the home owner wanted it painted. (I know, it killed me to do it) I sanded, cleaned, and sprayed Bin primer with my Graco 490 airless. The finish was sprayed with my Graco AAA sprayer.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:40 PM   #10
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Schmidt, what does sanding entail to prep a job like that for paint?
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:45 PM   #11
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Quote:
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Schmidt, what does sanding entail to prep a job like that for paint?
I'm just giving it a good scuffing to insure adhesion of the bonding primer. So in that dining room, it took me about six hours of sanding. I was able to power sand all the flats, but had to do all the rounded crown and smaller details by hand.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:49 PM   #12
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Titan XT290 Paint Sprayer $390 OR BEST OFFER on Kijiji http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...AdIdZ577892023

HVLP sprayer Wagner Finecoat 2000 on Kijiji http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...AdIdZ577032898
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:50 PM   #13
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Quote:
Originally Posted by mako1 View Post
I have to disagree with parts of your post.If you are charging for the job and presenting yourself as a pro then you better be able to do a pro finish.We all have to learn somehow but if your in the business you also have to make money.Spending money and time on a couple half assed pray rigs and taking the time to practice with them is going to do nothing but cost money.
I would suggest buying the best air assisted airless or hvlp conversion you can afford and do your own cabinets first.It will be a real learning experienceand you won't have to worr about the customer.Even if it's family.Those can be the toughest ones to deal wit.
I owned a custom cabinet shop for several years and prefer the hvlp conversion and air assisted airless over the straight HVLP guns.If you are spraying the cases in place the HVLP would be less of a problem to set up and move.It may just be me but I always got better results from the conversion guns or AAA.I did have air driers and water filters in the line but found them easier to adjust and get better atomization with.
I sprayed everything from shellac to latex to Cat lac.If I were going to do your project I would spray a color coat of what ever color latex you wanted and then lightly sand and clear coat over.
Why start out and learn on junk equipment just to have to relearn on good equipment that has a certain learning curve of it's own .Other than that I agree with the above advice.
Fair enough. I was definitely describing my own learning curve. It took me a few tries before I appreciated the value of a good gun.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:08 PM   #14
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


I understand have been that route to a point.Just believe in buying the best possible and learning from that.You'll always want and need better if and when you get good at it.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:35 PM   #15
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Would either of those be sufficient. I do understand I'm not going tone a "professional" finish here. But I'm also sure I can give her a much better finish then brush strokes. Lol
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:41 PM   #16
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


I've never tried an AAA set up, I've always used a turbine HVLP set up. It's worked fine for me except when it comes to painting oak cabinets and doors. I can't get the paint to fill the grain, I always end up having to do either the primer or 1 finish coat with a brush and whiz roller to push the paint into the grain.

So in this post I'm going to post another question, with a AAA system that pushes the paint through the gun with a pump and atomizing it with air does this help to push the paint into the grain?


I also agree with Mako, the BM latex paint needs to be top coated with a clear. I'm wondering what Mako uses as a clear? Currently I'm using Target 6000 or 9300. I've tried several brands of water base polys but all fish eye on latex paints.

Last edited by carzie; 04-06-2014 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:50 PM   #17
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


BIN is my choice of sealer/primer for most applications. as far as which system you go with? Ken had the best answer, if you don't have proper dust/fume control a 5K system will not save you.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:07 PM   #18
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


Quote:
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I've never tried an AAA set up, I've always used a turbine HVLP set up. It's worked fine for me except when it comes to painting oak cabinets and doors. I can't get the paint to fill the grain, I always end up having to do either the primer or 1 finish coat with a brush and whiz roller to push the paint into the grain.

So in this post I'm going to post another question, with a AAA system that pushes the paint through the gun with a pump and atomizing it with air does this help to push the paint into the grain?


I also agree with Mako, the BM latex paint needs to be top coated with a clear. I'm wondering what Mako uses as a clear? Currently I'm using Target 6000 or 9300. I've tried several brands of water base polys but all fish eye on latex paints.
If you really want a slick finish over oak you really need to use a grain filler no matter what equipment you spray with.I have had good success with Hydorcote waterborne finishes over latex.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:20 PM   #19
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


My customers are always informed that the grain will always be visible with oak unless they want to spring for filler. Problem comes when they have stained oak cabinets and they want an off white trying to get paint into the slivers of dark grain. I will look into the Hydorcote, although I'm very happy with the Target in general I've found they're hardener (CL-100) has has some adverse affects with the 6000 which is one of their cabinet lacquers. Thanks Mako.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:31 AM   #20
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Re: Advice For Painting Cabinets


I'm finishing up painting new cabinets with BM Advance paint. It's a family job so I thought I'd do it myself with brush an rollers for the first time. It looks good so far.

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