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Tile Under Cabinets

 
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:01 PM   #1
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Tile Under Cabinets


I have got a kitchen remodel coming up that will be a complete gut new floors cabinets and counter tops. Talking to the client about it he wants the cabinets in first then the tile floor. I hate to do it this way and tried to convince him to do he tile first. I talked about the cabinets having to be raised to accommodate the dishwasher the fact we might have to use shoe molding and the added time to cut around the cabinets. His theory is that he wants to change the floor it will be easier to change if they are put down last. Should i just do it his way or should i continue to push floor first. Any other issues i should convey to him on the benefits of floor first?
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:14 PM   #2
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Unfortunately he probably won't see it any other way. Hes so blinded by the fact that he'll save a few bucks on tile material and installation that he's willing to completely ignore your fantastic advice.

Yes, the dishwasher is the most annoying hurdle. But you warned him. If he's ok with shoe trim and a more difficult to remove DW, so be it. It pains me too, but oh well.

I've learned in this downturn this is becoming more prevalent. Let it go. Maybe he'll be ok with it and still give you a recommendation down the road.

Oh, and the thing about changing his mind..... I try to avoid projects like this. Nail it down, much less stress and heartache.

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Old 01-25-2011, 01:21 PM   #3
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


A home I built over the summer the custom insisted on this as well with the kitchen flooring. I also went over the advantages to putting the cabinets in first and explained the cost is about the same since the installers don't have to make as many cuts as they would if the cabinets are in. I think in the end you have to choose your battles, like Teoli said if they are willing to accept the added cost of the trim, etc...go with it.
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:24 PM   #4
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


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Originally Posted by Old Crow View Post
I have got a kitchen remodel coming up that will be a complete gut new floors cabinets and counter tops. Talking to the client about it he wants the cabinets in first then the tile floor. I hate to do it this way and tried to convince him to do he tile first. I talked about the cabinets having to be raised to accommodate the dishwasher the fact we might have to use shoe molding and the added time to cut around the cabinets. His theory is that he wants to change the floor it will be easier to change if they are put down last. Should i just do it his way or should i continue to push floor first. Any other issues i should convey to him on the benefits of floor first?
Personally, I would do it how he wants it. If you said your piece, and you made a couple valid attempts at how to do it properly, & they're not positively responding, then so be it. I'd just try to keep him happy. It'd be worth it, I think, to ask him when he realistically thinks he will replace the tile floor and if it's worth the time & effort for something that probably won't happen for 20 years. Maybe use the, "it'll cost you more money and time to do it your way and it'll be improperly done" approach. I'd just make sure your contract covers you and your warranty if you do it his way. That's what I would do for what it's worth (if anything).
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:30 PM   #5
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Just tell him it's more expensive to do it that way. If he accepts, then charge more.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:33 PM   #6
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Is this guy a "know it all"? You know the guy that is trying to show off in front of his wife. Be careful. Has he made another remarks concerning the process of the remodel?

I like husbands that ask the right questions but I don't like husbands that try to tell me what to do. I don't have an ego problem or don't argue I just tend to be careful.

If he is like this. Then he might be there checking to see how long you let the paint dry before you apply another coat. He might question your nail pattern and try to use it against you when it comes time to pay.

If the tile was gonna be laid on a 45 I might cry a bit but if it's a straight lay then just do it. Either way it is laid, you shouldn't need shoe mould.

90% of the clients have simple, reasonable requests. This sounds like one. Just be careful of the guy that "knows it all" but just doesn't have the time to remodel his house
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:57 PM   #7
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Tell him there is a possibility he will never get his dishwasher out after the tile is done or fit a dishwasher in, and you will not be responsible if it happens...include this little clause in your contract.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:43 PM   #8
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Is the house on slab or pier and beam?
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:50 PM   #9
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


I have seen so many floors done like this and some I was not even able to remove the dishwasher at all. I have never done a house where the flooring was replaced before the kitchen was done. I priced one just the other day. They wanted new cabinets but they liked the tile so wanted to keep the tile but they tiled up to the cabinets and they wanted to move an island but couldn't because of the tile not being under the cabinets. Could have been a much cheaper instal for them if they done it properly in the first place. They also had a dishwasher leak and it damaged the sub floor and the ceiling. Tile would have helped here also.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:01 PM   #10
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


I would have the tile laid 3/4" under the toe kick and shim the backs up. Also lay the tile under the DW. This way he can easily Change the flooring if he wants and you won't need shoe mold.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:12 AM   #11
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


I would install plywood filler under the cabinets to raise the height install

the tile up to the cabinets. If you did not price the job this way, you

should charge more to do it the clients way. Customer should pay for the

filler and extra time and extra time for cutting around the cabinets.

Careful he will want credits for the tile not installed.

Good luck with this one.

Chad
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:31 AM   #12
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Who changes a floor in a kitchen without changing the cabinets? Im sure it happens sometimes, but you need to realize that people are usually picking tiles that compliment the cabinets or the space. I would argue that he would end up installing a floor that was similar to the one being ripped out if he wasnt going to drastically alter anything else, which is a waste of time anyways. By the time the floor is ready to be changed so are the cabinets!

By the time you add up all the extras for shimming and cutting around cabinets, not to mention having to be more cautious with installation to not to mess up the cabinets that are already there, the cost will be the same.

that being said i do think installing tile underneath the dishwasher and shimming the cabinets up, in lieu of tiling the entire floor is a good compromise, if the customer is still adamant on doing it this way.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:52 AM   #13
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


I wouldn't say putting the cabinets in first is "wrong" but it's just a little more work and not common practice. He does have a point about changing the floor but if the cabinets are on top of the floor and he wants to change it , then everything has to go. It's really not that hard to build the cabinets up and take in a count the dw. If what the homeowner wants is not going to create a liability for you then putting up a fight just makes you seem like your being difficult. As long as he is willing to pay extra for the time to build the cabinets up, tile cuts , and possible shoe then I see no problem.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:58 AM   #14
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcon View Post
I would install plywood filler under the cabinets to raise the height install

the tile up to the cabinets. If you did not price the job this way, you

should charge more to do it the clients way. Customer should pay for the

filler and extra time and extra time for cutting around the cabinets.

Careful he will want credits for the tile not installed.

Good luck with this one.

Chad
Yep, pre raise the cabinets so they are at the proper level and flush with the tile after it is put in. Put a pc of ply where the DW goes and it will slide out like normal. The price should be about the same either way, tile the whole thing or plywood shim the cabinet areas. Don't let him put the tile down first or you will be screwed.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:21 AM   #15
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcon View Post
I would install plywood filler under the cabinets to raise the height install

the tile up to the cabinets. If you did not price the job this way, you

should charge more to do it the clients way. Customer should pay for the

filler and extra time and extra time for cutting around the cabinets.

Careful he will want credits for the tile not installed.

Good luck with this one.

Chad
Done it more than a few times like this as per customer request.

A couple of things.... when you add the sheet of ply you can take the time to level the floor surface first than install ply over top to make your install easier and without shims.

Cut the ply a inch small on the width. This will eliminate need for shoe as the tile edge will be tucked 1" under the cabinet and or DW.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:48 PM   #16
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Thanks for the reply's guys. I talked to the wife today and i think we are going to tile under the cabinets like i wanted to all along. I can see both sides of the argument but i like the looks much better when the tile runs under the cabinets. But it don't matter what i like and in the end i will do which ever they want.
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:37 PM   #17
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


Tile under the cabs or tile to them, what difference does it make for a dishwasher?

Raise the cabs, really? Guys are doing that?
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:38 PM   #18
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


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Tile under the cabs or tile to them, what difference does it make for a dishwasher?

Raise the cabs, really? Guys are doing that?
Most cabinets are 34 1/2" high. Some of what you show on the list will not work unless you raised the cabinets.
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:52 PM   #19
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


I tiled my kitchen floor last year. I had to set the dishwasher prior to installing the last tiles. When the time comes, I will sawzall the dishwasher if necessary and replace it with the 33" model. This is really not a huge issue. Sometimes there is no choice, as in my case.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:36 PM   #20
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Re: Tile Under Cabinets


I like to set my kitchen cabs right on the floor joists. This saves a lot on floor sheathing, or I can just use that piece to make a countertop out of.

That's me, always thinking.


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