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Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom

 
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:54 AM   #1
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Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


Hello everyone, Im new here and have been reading the site for a while but finally decided to post something. Im rebuilding the washroom in my basement. Id like to install tile on all the walls and have the ceiling bare paint. Im doing a 32x60 kerdi shower with kerdi board for the walls in the shower only, electric mat heated floor under ditra for the slab and my only question is for the walls (everything outside the shower) I was going to use durock instead of the kerdi board because kerdi board is 110 a sheet. if i tile over this should i apply redgard or is that overkill. Ive done many washrooms before with just durock but it seems more and more i see the use of paint on membranes now. But is it overkill to use the paint on membrane outside the shower? also what to use for the ceiling? densarmour? thanks for any help. i realize this is more of an opinion question but i will much rather use a cement board product over gypsum based
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:31 AM   #2
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


I use DensArmor outside of the wet area for tile. Actually, I just use all DensArmor and waterproof what I need to for the wet area. As for the stuff not getting directly wet, I liquid waterproof the seams and screw holes.

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Old 02-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #3
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


Only one thing gets used in our bathrooms and that's densarmor. Like Angus said kerdi the wet areas and you will be gtg
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:55 AM   #4
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


I didn't say to use Kerdi. My go-to membranes would be NobleSeal TS, preferably installed with Noble EXT or Mapei AquaDefense with Mapeband.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:03 PM   #5
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


Use the noble. There are tons of threads and information on this site. I learned how to do it properly here also.

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Old 02-29-2012, 12:16 PM   #6
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


Not like Angus said but nice try.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:35 PM   #7
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


so forget about the kerdi shower? what about ditra for over the slab? my alternate route is using durock for the shower area and waterproofing with redgard but what about the pan? i dont like the water in water out method of using a pvc liner mortar bed, id rather use a mortar bed and redgard on top if it came down to choosing. it seems there is so much conflicting information and different methods for doing it. id like to do this right so i was willing to spend the money on the kerdi kit, but now i started to read about non modified mortar use with the porcelain tile id like to use. whats the deal with that will schluter warranty a porcelain install using non modified? thanks again for your input anyone, id rather hear from people who install on a daily then read about every manufacturer claiming to have the best
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:27 PM   #8
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


If you use Green EBoard you can apply a liquid waterproofing membrane or topical over the board in the wet zones and go straight over with regular drywall compounds in the dry zone.

Remember Kerdi Board is not rated for anything but tile over top - this means you have to stop your Kerdi Board at the wall board junction point. This can get tricky. It is easier and more efficient to install the green eboard a little wild of your mark and then tape the green eboard to regular drywall or just more green eboard.

I can post a few pictures later this week. We have this exact setup going in as we speak.

Green EBoard is also fire rated. I have found no better backer board to work with!

Green EBoard also works great with fireplace prep work. Here is a look at a master fireplace feature out in UBC at a job site I'm working on.


Our next steam project will feature Green EBoard. In steam showers Green EBoard wants a topical membrane like Kerdi, Dal Seal TS, Noble Seal TS, Wedi or Jaegger over top. In Vancouver we follow the TTMAC Guidelines so we use Noble Seal TS which allows the use of modified thin sets. Any topical sheet membrane with a perm rating of less than 0.75 will work. Noble Seal TS has the best perm rating of the group I think and is only 0.05

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:32 PM   #9
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiefer365 View Post
... i was willing to spend the money on the kerdi kit, but now i started to read about non modified mortar use with the porcelain tile id like to use. whats the deal with that will schluter warranty a porcelain install using non modified? thanks again for your input anyone, id rather hear from people who install on a daily then read about every manufacturer claiming to have the best
If you go the Kerdi route mantain your warranty and use Ardex Setting Materials. Ardex is the only company I know of that allows the use of modified thin-sets with Kerdi.

Schluter does not allow this but Ardex has your back. I have my letter from them on file already.

Using Red Guard as a primary shower pan liner to a compression drain is a little sketchy.

I use the Noble Flex flashings so I get a good tie in to the drain and recently found the Mapeband flashing.

Using a Mapeband drain flashing you could build your entire shower with Mapei products and qualify for a 20 year warranty. Check it out.

That is 15 years longer than Kerdi's warranty I think.

If you go the Red Guard route ensure your mortar bed is cure before covering. Many people are having water blister issues with liquids and I suspect it is because they are using regular 4-1 dry packs for prep work.

Check out the Mapecem Fast Setting Screed Mortar by Mapei. Hands down the best shower pan mix out there.

JW
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:18 PM   #10
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


i purchased the kerdi shower 32 x 60 preslope tray and curbs, and decided to go with kerdi board in the shower area only. i scrapped the idea of tiling the walls outside the shower. I was going to use densarmor and paint it but i looked at greeneboards website and it turns out you can use 1/2'' as a drywall replacement too. the place where i bought the kerdi from just started carrying greeneboard so ill check it out.

the big issue for me is availability and i dont work with tiles on a regular basis so i dont deal with many places to buy from. where do you find noble products or ardex etc. I usually run to big box stores for items i dont need a lot of and my local lowes/rona carry limited mapei products such as thin set mortars and thats about it. Im in toronto ontario.

also i contacted schluter and they said they will warranty me using mapei kerabond or masterset to install porcelain in the kerdi shower. ive read of people using versabond as well although it is lightly modified. it seems it would be the better choice for porcelain seeing as how it is still dryset.

anyway i appreciate everyones input alot and thank you jw for the advice on greeneboard. looks like a promising product
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:31 PM   #11
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


sorry one more thing, can anyone answer why a product like nobleseal allows the use of modified thinset, while schluter doesnt? i understand the whole moisture sandwich thing and why the use of non modified is important, but isnt nobleseal just like kerdi? thanks kiefer
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:24 AM   #12
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiefer365 View Post
sorry one more thing, can anyone answer why a product like nobleseal allows the use of modified thinset, while schluter doesnt? i understand the whole moisture sandwich thing and why the use of non modified is important, but isnt nobleseal just like kerdi? thanks kiefer

You asked a good question. Trying to answer it will only make for a long debate.

I'll ask you this and you decide.

Why is it that every other company allows the use of modified thin-sets over their products and still offers up a warranty?

And one more question.

Why is Kerdi installed with modified thinsets in Europe and why is Kerdi DS nearly three times as thick as regular Kerdi?

That might have been two.

The more you study waterproofing systems and tile suppliers requirements for setting tile the more you will shy away from the Schluter System.

Now if you love Kerdi - as many do. Use Ardex setting materials only. Thin-set. Grout. Ardex knows their modified thin sets works with Kerdi because the two company's are both German and have this sorted out.

Here in North America I find that there is a lot of bad blood between Schluter and the thin set makers. Doesn't make me feel all warm and cozy when they bitch about the giant orange marketing machine.

But it is also hard to tell what is "Fact" and what is "Salesmanship". Do your own research. Call your Kerdi rep, ask these questions. Ask if you can do A, B and C on your job and then ask him to put it in writting. Then send that email to Schluter head office, Schluter's warranty is very clear in it's description that the printed install instructions from head office trump all verbal advice. Get it in writting or make life easy on yourself and go with Ardex setting materials.

It took me two days for answers from Ardex. Some of my questions to Schluter are coming on 2 months to get answered.

Noble Seal TS is not just like Kerdi. It's a far superior product. It's 30 mil thick not 8mil. It has a Perm rating of 0.05 not 0.75 (lower the better). It allows the use of any thinset. And you can do a shower floor (most times) in one piece which is not possible with Kerdi unless your shower floor area is like 23" wide.

JW
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:27 AM   #13
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


John thank you for your response. I didn't know about the Europeans version being able to set with modified but it is a good question for the reps. Luckily I haven't completed my washroom yet but i have already purchased kerdi board and a kerdi shower pan and membrane so im kind of stuck now.I had originally bought masterset to set the Kerdi but where would I find ardex material in Ontario. Better yet where can I find noble seal for the future
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:12 AM   #14
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Re: Tile Backerboard In Basement Washroom


I have been taking notice of the Ardex products and am finding now that I look for it more on many if the projects we work on.

We did 1200 square of Ardex on a condo renovation and their product is great.

I found another setter using it on a pool tile install yesterday.

Use Kerdi fix to seal your seams from wall to floor and your Kerdi Board seams. Kerdi Fix is an amazing product and once set this way bullet proof. We like to use a 2" band of Kerdi fix set with a 3/16" v notched trowel. Smoothed flat with no air bubbles.

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