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Shower And Tub Safety Bars

 
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:17 AM   #1
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Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I've run into a situation with a wall. with studs on 24 centers, That a customer wants grab bars. Because of the layout I can't hang them on studs. All the safety data says two screws must be on the stud. Has anyone hit this issue and used wall hangers safely. To top it of the 1/2 Hardy board is giving my stud finder false readings. By the way it is ceramic tile.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:39 AM   #2
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I have definitely run into that problem....and have used wall anchors, I put the bar on a diagonal though. So when someone used it, pressure would be applied to all screws.
With the right sized hole and a larger screw and plug 5/16", I can't see it being a problem. I mean for it to come out it would almost take the tile with it.

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Old 04-07-2011, 07:41 AM   #3
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I'd also put some PL on the bar before screwing to, just to give it some extra grip
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:21 AM   #4
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


try this: http://www.wingits.com/GrabBarFasteningSystems
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:08 AM   #5
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I would keep the PL off the Grab Bars and go with a Wing It or Wing It Like anchor. Some extra bit would be better achieved with a little clear silicone.

I have not personally installed these Wing It's but have heard from a Pro Installer that they really do work well.

You might not get the same pull out rating with out hitting a wall stud but an elderly person will not have that kind of grip strength anyhow.

Placing the grab bar on the diagonal can help you find a stud but it will make it harder to grab in a fall scenerio. I would place the bar horizontal along the back shower wall if you can.

Is the grab bar for entry and exit help, help off a bench or just general safety?

Here is a great new product from Elio - a LED Safety Bar or Grab Bar.



I like how they used a grab bar as the shower hand held support glide.

JW

Last edited by JohnFRWhipple; 02-29-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:31 PM   #6
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


Does anyone know of a good reliable stud finder that will find wood behind tile? I tried some years ago, but they were pretty useless!
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:35 PM   #7
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


Quote:
Originally Posted by jarvis design
Does anyone know of a good reliable stud finder that will find wood behind tile? I tried some years ago, but they were pretty useless!
I got the same problem.... can't find a good studfinder
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:19 AM   #8
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


What type of anchor and size did you use

Thanks John
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:19 AM   #9
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


Get a 24" grab bar.
A new stud-finder. I usually mark the stud locations on the shower base (if doing the whole job).

Those wing-it's are the way to go. The grab bar has to be compatible though.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:50 PM   #10
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I have used the hanson on sheetrock and it works well. With tile over the sheetrock it still kind of works but it's not as obvious when you're over a sheetrock screw. I read in another forum that there's another magnet based stud finder being introduced at the hardware show in may? that has a 1" diameter moving magnet that thuds against the wall when it is over a screw or nail. Supposedly it's sensitive enough to work on any kind of wall. Sounds interesting but we'll see....
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:36 PM   #11
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


Quote:
Originally Posted by joblake326
I have used the hanson on sheetrock and it works well. With tile over the sheetrock it still kind of works but it's not as obvious when you're over a sheetrock screw. I read in another forum that there's another magnet based stud finder being introduced at the hardware show in may? that has a 1" diameter moving magnet that thuds against the wall when it is over a screw or nail. Supposedly it's sensitive enough to work on any kind of wall. Sounds interesting but we'll see....
I sure hope you're not talking about tile over Sheetrock in a tub or shower...
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:39 PM   #12
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


When you mentioned that new stud finder with the magnet, I immediately figured it had to be a rare earth magnet.
So, I went to Lee Valley today and bought a 5 pack of 1 inch dia. x 1/8" rare earth magnets.

Tried to find a screw/nail through my tile surround which is on concrete board.

With one magnet, no go...

With all five...success!!

Tried it on my kitchen backsplash which is a 3/8" marble, definately not as easy to detect, but you could feel a little "pull" here and there which I assume to be screws/nails

am going to look up the stats for the strength of that particular size of magnet(x5). Pretty sure you can get larger
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:18 PM   #13
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


kev above is correct. wingits are the only ones rated for 250 lbs of shear strength which is what you have to worry about. once they are used you are okay. they are approved by the ms society and society for disabled adults....
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:02 AM   #14
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I think if you install a Wingit you need room for it to expand behind the wall. If you drill through and just miss a wall stud you might not be able to install the Wingit properly.

A friend of mine down South is using a different system. I'll send him an email and ask what.

JW
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:31 AM   #15
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


Just last week I installed some bars using the wingits, the big ones because of 1 1/4" thick walls. And yes you need enough clearance behind the wall for them to spread enough. If they're that close to studs it ought to work out to adjust enough to use that stud as a mounting point, preferably so anyway. What I did was drill a small pilot hold and worked a piece of tie wire bent enough to spin behind the wall to check how close I was to studs. In a couple instances I was close enough to go ahead and screw directly to the stud and in the other instances I was far enough away to go ahead and drill for and install the wingit. Most locations for this install could not be altered enough to find studs, like the vertical bars on the plumbing for shower entrance.
I gotta say the wingits are pretty darn solid, as long as the wall is pretty darn solid to begin with.
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:20 AM   #16
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


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Originally Posted by dsconstructs View Post
...
I gotta say the wingits are pretty darn solid, as long as the wall is pretty darn solid to begin with.
I heard an interesting point that most people in need of Grab Bars don't have the hand strength anyway to pull a grab bar off the wall.

The most alarming thing to worry about is for the install to weaken the backer board to the point it just fails and falls away. This would be the result of a poor seal and water migrating into the hole produced for the Wing It and soaking the backer board. If drywall was used it could be a short time in certain set ups that the wall just fails one day.

When installing these grab bars it would be wise to insure no water can migrate through the grout joints and into the backer board. A product like Kerdi Fix would do a good job in the trough holes.

The LED Grab Bars from ELIO are code approved for wet shower locations.

JW

Last edited by JohnFRWhipple; 02-29-2012 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:47 AM   #17
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


Good point....with any type of grab bar installation method. If I'm doing one planned ahead of time, or lucky enough to hit studs I still seal behind the mounting flange prior to screwing it in with some extra in the screw holes. Even with the wingits with that "self seal" on the wall a bit of extra sealant just seems a smart thing to do
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:16 AM   #18
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


]Did one recently and let a 2 X 8 into the studs before boarding and tiling. But I know you all are talking about after the fact. It's too bad a company couldn't make a recessed plate as part of a assembly with the bar to let you remove the tile, board then install the 2X.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:53 PM   #19
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


I have installed them with heavy duty toggle bolts with no problem.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:35 AM   #20
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Re: Shower And Tub Safety Bars


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I have installed them with heavy duty toggle bolts with no problem.

I just had the installer from "Self Care" come up to my father in laws a month or so back to install grab bars in his rental suite. I decided to pass on the install not to be a horrible son in law but rather my father in law rents his apartment from friends of ours and I hate doing any work on my friends homes.

The installer shows up with a glass and tile bit and couldn't drill through the "Natural Tile" i.e. Black Porcelain Tile. What he did leave was a handful of toggle bolts that he had switched out the stock screw and replaced it with a stainless one.

I thought that rig was pretty slick for installs where there is no blocking.

Testing grab bars should include a pull out test with a couple hundred pounds of force. I would not want to try this with most tiled showers. I broke apart the core samples (plugs from my diamond coring bit) and found that the shower was build above building code. It was constructed with 1/2" hardie board, taped seams and Red Guard.

I installed two grab bars for my father in law and did so with just two toggle bolts per bar. He will not be living there for ever and I didn't want to litter the walls with 12 holes. This shower is pretty dark with a dark grey tile and no shower light. I could not install the LED grab bars from Elio since the home owner did not want me opening up the drywall on the other side to install a new junction box and power supply. We switched out the light bulbs above the vanity for brighter ones and replace the shower curtain with a clear one.

Something like this would have brighten up the shower a ton.






I used Kerdi Fix to seal the other holes on the two stock grab bars we had installed.

JW
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Last edited by JohnFRWhipple; 02-29-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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