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Old 11-14-2010, 11:52 PM   #21
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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Originally Posted by paulibra79 View Post
Well.oh... so... May I offer you my profound apology for all the great harm that RTA cabinets have done to American people? Oh, God, it's hurting so deep.

I know American people like framed cabinets but please be noted that there is not an intrinsic and necessary connection between "RTA" and "frameless". Actually all the cabinets we have here are all framed.
Out of Jimmy's entire rant all you touch on is the frameless part?

I guess case is closed then!
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:03 AM   #22
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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Out of Jimmy's entire rant all you touch on is the frameless part?

I guess case is closed then!
Hey, Brett. It's not true. Actually I have discussed with Jimmy on all his opinions in this and other threads sometimes so I don't have to talk something back and forth, that's all. People can get bored on those repeated banality.

If you'r interested in this topic or have any question, I'd like to share each other's ideas and opinions with you.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:06 AM   #23
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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Originally Posted by paulibra79 View Post
Hey, bhock. It's not true. Actually I have discussed with Jimmy on all his opinions in this and other threads sometimes so I don't have to talk something back and forth, that's all. People can get bored on those repeated banality.

If you'r interested in this topic or have any question, I'd like to share each other's ideas and opinions with you.
As a cabinet distributor for an american built custom cabinet company I really have nothing to discuss on the matter.
But thanks for the response, I just thought it odd that after JC's long post all you mentioned was frameless, but you cleared that up.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:28 AM   #24
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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Originally Posted by paulibra79 View Post
Hey, Brett. It's not true. Actually I have discussed with Jimmy on all his opinions in this and other threads sometimes so I don't have to talk something back and forth, that's all. People can get bored on those repeated banality.

If you'r interested in this topic or have any question, I'd like to share each other's ideas and opinions with you.
Paul I have no problem discussing the RTA issue with complete respect to you. But there is one issue I have. After the wonderful, exciting and very very long career in this business I have the right to say that my long rant was all facts. No opinions The only opinion I offered was that I despise framless cabinetry. Everything else I listed were facts. Not my opinions or anyone's opinions. Just facts which are backed up with facts.

Other parts of the world do not like framed. That don't make anyone bad. The arguments do run deep on the goods and bads of both framed and frameless......ain't no doubt about that.

Whatever the case, my rant was in no way to put you down personally. I just have no place in my life or my reputation for knock down cabinets. That don't mean there is no place in the market place for them. My reputation was built on many things but one of them was not selling whatever I could get cheap to maximize my profit.
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:38 PM   #25
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Re: Rta Cabinets


In Canada (Langley BC) we have Euro-Rite cabinets for RTA,they are CANADIAN made, they are frameless(which is without a doubt the most popular here by the way, and my favourite, hands down), and they are actually great quality for the price.

I have assemble and installed the chinese framed cabinetry and we had a lot of problems with frames being bowed, cam locks falling apart, and horrible color variations, I almost felt bad installing them in peoples houses but like you said Jimmy, people are uneducated, and people like low prices and unfortunately opt for chinese, |I would however stand behind the Euro-rite stuff, as they have a warranty and can recieve a replacement door, drawer, gable etc. within 1-2 days, cheers.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:51 AM   #26
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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In Canada (Langley BC) we have Euro-Rite cabinets for RTA,they are CANADIAN made, they are frameless(which is without a doubt the most popular here by the way, and my favourite, hands down), and they are actually great quality for the price.

I have assemble and installed the chinese framed cabinetry and we had a lot of problems with frames being bowed, cam locks falling apart, and horrible color variations, I almost felt bad installing them in peoples houses but like you said Jimmy, people are uneducated, and people like low prices and unfortunately opt for chinese, |I would however stand behind the Euro-rite stuff, as they have a warranty and can recieve a replacement door, drawer, gable etc. within 1-2 days, cheers.
Jeb I don't know much about Euro-Rite except it's very local to BC. I am not aware if they ship to the states. I do remember seeing them in person though when I lived in North Van which is but a half hour from their plant. I look at labels in cabinets like others look at labels on cloths. Not bad I might add but just not my taste in fine cabinetry. I can say for sure the majority of kitchens are frameless in at least BC. At least what I saw.

When I said the word "uneducated" that was certainly not a put down on anyone or any country. Let the consumer beware and if they don't choose to educate themselves before a major purchase then to hell with them. Right? That goes for anyone
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Last edited by Jimmy Cabinet; 11-16-2010 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:26 AM   #27
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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Jeb I don't know much about Euro-Rite except it's very local to BC. I am not aware if they ship to the states. I do remember seeing them in person though when I lived in North Van which is but a half hour from their plant. I look at labels in cabinets like others look at labels on cloths. Not bad I might add but just not my taste in fine cabinetry. I can say for sure the majority of kitchens are frameless in at least BC. At least what I saw...

When I said the word "uneducated" that was certainly not a put down on anyone or any country. Let the consumer beware and if they don't choose to educate themselves before a major purchase then to hell with them. Right? That goes for anyone

Ya there mainly a local company but for RTA there a great mid end cabinet for the average consumer because they have a great reputation and there affordable(unlike housing here) and there one of the only RTA brands I would put in my own place(not before screwing and stapling them)...ya no I don't mean uneducated all around, but alot of consumers unfortunately(or fortunately for some people..) couldnt tell the difference visually from a chinese made kitchen as opposed to a semi custom made..but to you and me its different, we walk into a a buddies house or bar etc. and were checking for level cabs, tight fillers/miters etc. etc. lol
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:53 AM   #28
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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Originally Posted by Jimmy Cabinet View Post
Paul I have no problem discussing the RTA issue with complete respect to you. But there is one issue I have. After the wonderful, exciting and very very long career in this business I have the right to say that my long rant was all facts. No opinions The only opinion I offered was that I despise framless cabinetry. Everything else I listed were facts. Not my opinions or anyone's opinions. Just facts which are backed up with facts.

Other parts of the world do not like framed. That don't make anyone bad. The arguments do run deep on the goods and bads of both framed and frameless......ain't no doubt about that.

Whatever the case, my rant was in no way to put you down personally. I just have no place in my life or my reputation for knock down cabinets. That don't mean there is no place in the market place for them. My reputation was built on many things but one of them was not selling whatever I could get cheap to maximize my profit.
I have no doubt what you said are all facts. I just wanna remind that we should get the Whole Story as possible as we can at any time when we need to make a judgement or decision. Everything has two sides. Sometimes it's really hard to see the forest through the sleaze. As for your dislike of RTA or frameless, no problem, that's your personal right. Have a good day, friend.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #29
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Re: Rta Cabinets


I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I've found the debate and facts to be very interesting. We end up rehabbing a lot of houses in low income areas. I have no interest in using any products that could cause harm to people who are living there, but on the other end, my clients have very strict budgets and I can't really tell them we need to use a high end cabinet in a house that they purchased for $5000 and will be selling for $40,000. Anyway, thanks to both Paul and Jimmy for keeping the discussions about facts and not making it personal.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:59 AM   #30
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I've found the debate and facts to be very interesting. We end up rehabbing a lot of houses in low income areas. I have no interest in using any products that could cause harm to people who are living there, but on the other end, my clients have very strict budgets and I can't really tell them we need to use a high end cabinet in a house that they purchased for $5000 and will be selling for $40,000. Anyway, thanks to both Paul and Jimmy for keeping the discussions about facts and not making it personal.
Thank you woody1. Welcome to join the discussion. And hope to cooperate with you some day.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:33 PM   #31
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Re: Rta Cabinets


I am only asking because the price seems to be very reasonable. I have installed some not so large kitchens with $25000 in cabinets and we had problems with defects from the manufacturer who is supposed to be a very highly respected name. I am considering using cabinetstogo.com's product for my own house, they quoted my 10 x 12 kitchen w/ fridge panels and crown for around $3000. Just looking for some helpful info. Thanks.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:37 PM   #32
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Re: Rta Cabinets


Talk to your local cabinet shops. Mine just cnc cut some kd cabinets for me for a small budget kitchen. They just didn't assemble them. They are white so the shop was able to use prefinished materials. Blum hinges...blind mortise maple drawer boxes...full extension glides...good stuff. They have me a great price because they had almost no labor...just machine time, hardware, and delivery. Just a thought...plus you might build a good relationship...
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:43 AM   #33
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Re: Rta Cabinets


I have used Cabinets to go cabinets for the second time because of cost concerns. They were installed in mirror layouts in adjoining townhouses. The product is not bad but customer service is lacking. They have a hard time getting order out on time and complete. First order they shorted the glass doors I ordered but sent three base cabinets I did not order. I let them know of their mistake and purchased them at a significant price reduction. Second order was delayed two weeks from stated ship date. Took another 1 1/2 weeks to get someone to return my repeated calls. Got a response after I sent harsh email to corporate address. As stated by others, a few of the cam locks were damaged. I was able to work around the problem knowing it would take forever to get a replacement piece if available and delay the project more. If I was closer to a showroom, time frames could have been shorter but the closest is Atlanta , 5hrs away. I will be monitoring the durability of these cabinets and hopefully I won't be part of Chinese Cabinet Litigation in the future. 1 year after the first install there have been no issues.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:14 AM   #34
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I have used Cabinets to go cabinets for the second time because of cost concerns. They were installed in mirror layouts in adjoining townhouses. The product is not bad but customer service is lacking. They have a hard time getting order out on time and complete. First order they shorted the glass doors I ordered but sent three base cabinets I did not order. I let them know of their mistake and purchased them at a significant price reduction. Second order was delayed two weeks from stated ship date. Took another 1 1/2 weeks to get someone to return my repeated calls. Got a response after I sent harsh email to corporate address. As stated by others, a few of the cam locks were damaged. I was able to work around the problem knowing it would take forever to get a replacement piece if available and delay the project more. If I was closer to a showroom, time frames could have been shorter but the closest is Atlanta , 5hrs away. I will be monitoring the durability of these cabinets and hopefully I won't be part of Chinese Cabinet Litigation in the future. 1 year after the first install there have been no issues.
That's why it call for a sourcing agent/ anchor buyer out there. A good producer may deliver good quality but won't always address customer's concerns in a proper way in time.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #35
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Re: Rta Cabinets


I am so sick of these custom cabinet guys saying that Chinese RTA cabinets are crap and hazardous. Their just getting nervous since they know the days of charging $30,000-$60,000 for custom cabinetry is coming to an end.

First - There are many Chinese Manufacturers that are CARB 2 certified

Second- I have seen full Cherry RTA cabinets installed for $8,000 that look more custom then another within the same neighborhood who spent $25,000 for their Cherry.

It reminds me of the travel agent complaints of years ago where they tried telling consumers that booking and buying travel tickets and trips thru the internet was crap and did not provide the same service as a travel agents.

Bottom line and simple mathmatcal fact. If a consumer can get a similar not even the exact same products for 1/4 the price than they will always go for the cheaper alternative. .

One more thing, one of the main reasons that Chinese or any other cabinets fall apart during excessive usage is not where they are imported from but how they are assembled. So, if an RTA cabinet are assembled and installed properly than they will last just as long as any custom cabinetry.

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #36
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I am so sick of these custom cabinet guys saying that Chinese RTA cabinets are crab and hazardous. Their just getting nervous since they know the days of charging $30,000-$60,000 for custom cabinetry is coming to an end.

First - Their are many Chinese Manufacturers that are CARB 2 certified

Second- I have seen full Cherry RTA cabinets installed for $8,000 that look more custom then another within the same neighborhood who spent $25,000 for their Cherry.

It reminds me of the travel agent complaints of years ago where they tried telling consumers that booking and buying travel tickets and trips thru the internet was crap and did not provide the same service as a travel agents.

Bottom line and simple mathmatcal fact. If a consumer can get a similar not even the exact same products for 1/4 the price than they will always go for the cheaper alternative. .
Dont get all hostile. I like to provide all the information for the customer and let them make up there mind. If you start preaching one thing or the other you will always alienate someone. Show samples of both, why do you care what the customer wants, its your job to be the teacher, not the judge and jury..
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #37
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I always like to save clients money. Why should any customer pay $25k, 30k, 40k for almost the same cabinetry and look that can only cost them 8k-10k. Chinese cabinets have all types of solid wood frames 1/2 3/4/, 1/4 plywood, more than many customs cabinet frames I have seen which are 5/8 - 1/2 most of the time.

Just like the Computer age, where people used to pay 5k-10 for a desktop and laptop computers which can be bought today for $300-$1000 the cabinet industry is going thru the same change where customers will not have pay a price of a car to get their kitchens renovated.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:42 PM   #38
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Re: Rta Cabinets


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I always like to save clients money. Why should any customer pay $25k, 30k, 40k for almost the same cabinetry and look that can only cost them 8k-10k. Chinese cabinets have all types of solid wood frames 1/2 3/4/, 1/4 plywood, more than many customs cabinet frames I have seen which are 5/8 - 1/2 most of the time.

Just like the Computer age, where people used to pay 5k-10 for a desktop and laptop computers which can be bought today for $300-$1000 the cabinet industry is going thru the same change where customers will not have pay a price of a car to get their kitchens renovated.
You just give them the options and they get to decide what they want to spend their money on. The nicest kitchens in the world will always be 100% custom, no matter what..

I also agree that those cabinets that have the face frames stapled to the boxes are getting nicer.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:52 PM   #39
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Re: Rta Cabinets


I wish I had something usefull to add here... this is all I have:
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:17 PM   #40
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Talk to your local cabinet shops. Mine just cnc cut some kd cabinets for me for a small budget kitchen. They just didn't assemble them. They are white so the shop was able to use prefinished materials. Blum hinges...blind mortise maple drawer boxes...full extension glides...good stuff. They have me a great price because they had almost no labor...just machine time, hardware, and delivery. Just a thought...plus you might build a good relationship...
Still think this is an option. I can get about anything from them as far as door style and finish. You just need to find a cabinet shop willing to think outside the box. All made right here in Ohio!

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