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Cast Iron Tub Without Lip

 
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:57 AM   #1
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Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


I have a customer who's tub is leaking into the wall. He's asking for a bid to replace the tile shower surround, to stop the leak. It was installed with about 1/2" gap between the tile and the tub. Ok, no problem until I looked around to see the top of the tub from the back side (access panel) and find there is no lip on the edge of the tub. How can I create a water tight seal when there is no lip built into the tub?
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #2
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


When you reboard it, drop the CBU in a bead of silicone, kerdi fix or Noble sealant 150.
If applying liquid waterproofing, mask off the tub lip and paint the small gap shut.
If using fabric membrane, install fabric and seal with approved caulking (kerdi fix, Noble Seal 150, Sikaflex...)

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Old 03-03-2012, 12:27 PM   #3
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Love me some kerdi fix.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:24 PM   #4
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Tech Dawg, thanks for the response.

I am a bit confused though, please help educate me on this. Around here I commonly see a tub surround with tile installed over drywall as the shower surround. And this is what I'll be removing. I realize this isn't a very good way of doing it so I planned on replacing the drywall with concrete backer then thinset and tile. With your advise I'll set the CBU (?Cement Board Unit? or ?Cementious Backer Unit?) in a bead of silicone. But then do I need to do additional water proofing? I thought the thinset/tile/grout portion was water proof.

thanks
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:31 PM   #5
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


1. Remove old crap
2. Reboard with Cement Board and sit the bottom in a bead of Noble Sealant 150
3. Use Laticrete HydroBan liquid waterproofing (paint the bottom gap shut)
4. Tile after its dry (next day)

Search the net for
Noble Sealant 150
Laticrete HydroBan

That should be some simple recomendations so you don't get confused with a bunch of different products
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:39 PM   #6
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Two more questions/clarifications then

Using the HydroBan waterproofing is just because there is no lip on the tub? Or do you do this on every tub/shower surround?

In Step 3 I'm only going a few inches up the cement board and only down to the tub, covering the Noble Sealant 150 and a 1/4" of the actual tub (then the 1/4" is hidden by the tile/thinset)

thanks
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:40 PM   #7
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Here's some pictures of a barrier free shower. The first one I used Durrock CBU and used mesh tape on all the seams/skimmed with rapid thinset.
The 2nd picture is showing the Green color HydroBan waterproofing you can roll it on and also use a brush for corners.
Attached Thumbnails
cast iron tub without lip-forumrunner_20120303_153640.jpg   cast iron tub without lip-forumrunner_20120303_153711.jpg   cast iron tub without lip-forumrunner_20120303_153806.jpg  
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:44 PM   #8
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Quote:
Originally Posted by Everend
Two more questions/clarifications then

Using the HydroBan waterproofing is just because there is no lip on the tub? Or do you do this on every tub/shower surround?

In Step 3 I'm only going a few inches up the cement board and only down to the tub, covering the Noble Sealant 150 and a 1/4" of the actual tub (then the 1/4" is hidden by the tile/thinset)

thanks
Everend
Set your board down to the tub in a bead of sealant. The HydroBan is to waterproof the walls, fill small gaps (like where the board meets the tub lip)
Just follow the Laticrete instructions and take the liquid up to the shower head.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:39 AM   #9
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


How about replacing the tub with a proper one since your guttin walls already?

If you go the hydroban route make sure you charge accordingly
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #10
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


I have yet to see a CI tub without lip.. mostly the old ones have a small one that rounds up a little
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:55 AM   #11
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


It's not just the older bathtubs that don't have a lip, the Kohler cast iron tubs don't have one either. But they are my favorite because they feel rock solid when they are installed. The tips offered so far are on the money. Make sure you have a good fit with the drywall or backer board. We even go the extra step of beveling the bottom edge of the sheetrock where it meets the tub. Then we use a good bead of silicone caulk to seal it (let it cure overnight) before the tub surround goes on.

I like to use the one-piece formica (high pressure laminate) surrounds as they are relatively cheap (the kit is $175 with the glue and trim) and they are seamless because they are formed out of one continuous piece of formica (they have a machine that heat bends the formica to make the 3 piece kit). When I install the tub kit, I seal it again with silicone. I've never had a problem with this system, although you do have to reseal the bottom edge of the tub kit every two or three years -- especially if it's in a campus rental!
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:04 PM   #12
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Is it really advisable to do this with a tub without a tile flange?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:35 PM   #13
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Quote:
Originally Posted by scot patterson
It's not just the older bathtubs that don't have a lip, the Kohler cast iron tubs don't have one either. But they are my favorite because they feel rock solid when they are installed. The tips offered so far are on the money. Make sure you have a good fit with the drywall or backer board. We even go the extra step of beveling the bottom edge of the sheetrock where it meets the tub. Then we use a good bead of silicone caulk to seal it (let it cure overnight) before the tub surround goes on.

I like to use the one-piece formica (high pressure laminate) surrounds as they are relatively cheap (the kit is $175 with the glue and trim) and they are seamless because they are formed out of one continuous piece of formica (they have a machine that heat bends the formica to make the 3 piece kit). When I install the tub kit, I seal it again with silicone. I've never had a problem with this system, although you do have to reseal the bottom edge of the tub kit every two or three years -- especially if it's in a campus rental!
Oops, missed a step...
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:41 PM   #14
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Everend,
Here's a photo of a job I tore out last year with Formica walls I've torn countless numbers of it out over the years and it's crap for shower walls

Stick with tile
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #15
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


I hear ya Tech Dawg. but I am here to say that if it's done correctly, one piece formica tub surrounds are a great choice. I have had them in all my rentals for the last ten years and never had a problem. I have torn out lots of tile surrounds that were not done properly as well. The problem with tile is that virtually no one does the maintenance on the grout. It should be cleaned and resealed periodically or moisture will penetrate to the backwall. There is no perfect solution, but good technique ensure a long lasting product!
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:04 PM   #16
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Quote:
Originally Posted by scot patterson
I hear ya Tech Dawg. but I am here to say that if it's done correctly, one piece formica tub surrounds are a great choice. I have had them in all my rentals for the last ten years and never had a problem. I have torn out lots of tile surrounds that were not done properly as well. The problem with tile is that virtually no one does the maintenance on the grout. It should be cleaned and resealed periodically or moisture will penetrate to the backwall. There is no perfect solution, but good technique ensure a long lasting product!
I get what your saying but you can't call it a perfect install if your using a glue up surround with drywall directly on the tub lip. If the caulk seal breaks it will eventually attack the paper and so on. With glue up walls, DW should be off the tub shirt however I understand that Formica is flimsy. If you would need it the whole way down (without topical waterproofing) you should be using cbu ILO sheetrock
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:48 PM   #17
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


Tech Dawg has it right. I would add one more step.Either fill between the studs at tub hieght or add a 1/2 solid plastic corner bead behind the board(cutting it to "L"shape) so the caulking doesn't drop into the wall. Of course if using the corner bead, silicone or Kerdi Fix...etc the piece down and then fill the spot the 1/2" drops into. Follow the rest.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:47 PM   #18
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


I would just replace the tub .
The tub isn't getting better with age .
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:17 PM   #19
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Re: Cast Iron Tub Without Lip


I used the Kohler Villager tub that has a small bump of a flange at my place and just used solid blocking at the rim of the tub and extended aluminum flashing over and caulked.

Next day, set the backer board down in sealant followed by tile set off the rim by 1/8" - that joint received color matching sealant to finish.

If it's completely flange-less - do change out the tub as I believe your asking for trouble.

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