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Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!

 
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:28 AM   #21
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


The top in question should have been made from one slab, but those tops were probably imported (probably from China) cut at 25" X 96" with the selfedge already finished (not full slabs) as a way to cut costs.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:30 AM   #22
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhook View Post
Granite, marble, travertine, wood etc. are all made by nature and are not perfect materials.
If the seam is flat and tight, it is acceptable.
Grain, vien, color and flecks have nothing to do with performance.
Live with it or get a man made product like corion or silestone.

I don't know Sky. If I installed this I wouldn't have the balls to ask my customer to pay up. I couldn't look them in the eye and say 'oh that's a natural product' as an excuse to protect my own sloppy work.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #23
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by bconley View Post
The top in question should have been made from one slab, but those tops were probably imported (probably from China) cut at 25" X 96" with the selfedge already finished (not full slabs) as a way to cut costs.
It could have been made in one slab, but whether It should have depends on the grain orientation of the piece used along with the surrounding pieces (left of the stove and the island)...
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:51 AM   #24
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Looking at it again they could have been trying to get the whole kitchen out of one slab
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:57 AM   #25
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
It could have been made in one slab, but whether It should have depends on the grain orientation of the piece used along with the surrounding pieces (left of the stove and the island)...
Judging from that seam and the distance from the other tops it should have been one piece, unless they were trying to get everything out of one slab or was put together out out prefab tops.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #26
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


I spoke to my father and he says the inner wall dimension on the two pieces are 48" from the stove to the inside corner, and 92.5" from the inside corner to the end of the long piece. 48" x 92.5"
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #27
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Do you have pics of the model home? To me, that is important to the legal aspect.

Is there a seam in the model kitchen?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #28
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by coveinspiration View Post
I spoke to my father and he says the inner wall dimension on the two pieces are 48" from the stove to the inside corner, and 92.5" from the inside corner to the end of the long piece. 48" x 92.5"
The slab is typically comes in 9'- 10' X 5'-6'. In most cases its 50SF, but after the waste, etc you get aprox 35 > SF to work with. Because of the weight which is aprox 25-35 LB SF and with the sink cut-out, they would make the seam near the sink and it shouldn't be more then 6" from the edge most cases right in the middle of it. If the seam you have, looks real bad and is noticeable, is because some installers use silicone which is a ****ty way of doing this, or they used color epoxy which don't match, or just did a sh^*t job leveling and connecting the two slabs.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:43 PM   #29
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


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Originally Posted by bconley View Post
Judging from that seam and the distance from the other tops it should have been one piece, unless they were trying to get everything out of one slab or was put together out out prefab tops.
Below are your options with regard to grain direction as it relates to using one slab on the corner wall... as you can see with the grain of the top the OP provided (see pic), it is a certain grain, meaning it follows a pattern.

Now we know that the grain for the top generally follows the width of the cabs below and is orientated L/R. That is what makes this top with this grain a challenge. It all depends on the piece it is being cut from whether or not it should be done... that is also a function of templating...

If a piece is not available to accommodate this, then the only other two choices available on this piece, is mitered at the corner where the grains meet, so that when you are standing in front of the top the grain is consistently going L/R or at the sink, if an adjoining piece can be orientated to follow the grain to the end of the counter.

If you have another way, I am all ears... I am always willing to learn or try something new if it makes design sense...

In this case, if the right cut is not available, IMHO a nice tight miter makes the most sense for a consistent end-product especially since there is plenty of room for expansion/contraction with a tile BS and cabinet end run...
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Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help please!-granite-tops-grain-directiion-gif.jpg  

Last edited by KAP; 02-29-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:39 PM   #30
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


B would have been a better choice IMO, there is no line of sight to the piece to the left of the range so the grain direction would not be as noticeable.
I stay away from mitered corners they are too long and too hard to to get right.
To each his own.
But like I said before it was most likely a decision of economics.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:44 PM   #31
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP

Below are your options with regard to grain direction as it relates to using one slab on the corner wall... as you can see with the grain of the top the OP provided (see pic), it is a certain grain, meaning it follows a pattern.

Now we know that the grain for the top generally follows the width of the cabs below and is orientated L/R. That is what makes this top with this grain a challenge. It all depends on the piece it is being cut from whether or not it should be done... that is also a function of templating...

If a piece is not available to accommodate this, then the only other two choices available on this piece, is mitered at the corner where the grains meet, so that when you are standing in front of the top the grain is consistently going L/R or at the sink, if an adjoining piece can be orientated to follow the grain to the end of the counter.

If you have another way, I am all ears... I am always willing to learn or try something new if it makes design sense...

In this case, if the right cut is not available, IMHO a nice tight miter makes the most sense for a consistent end-product especially since there is plenty of room for expansion/contraction with a tile BS and cabinet end run...
You have too much time on your hands. Nice job Kap! Way to help a brother out.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #32
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


You will have to put a seam at the sink, you will never move that slab with a sink cut out, it will snap from all that weight.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:03 PM   #33
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
You will have to put a seam at the sink, you will never move that slab with a sink cut out, it will snap from all that weight.
Greg, what makes you think that? It's done all the time...
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:09 PM   #34
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
You will have to put a seam at the sink, you will never move that slab with a sink cut out, it will snap from all that weight.
Not if you use these
Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help please!-sinksaver.jpg
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:08 PM   #35
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


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Originally Posted by bconley View Post
Not if you use these
Attachment 66932
Nice stuff,but the slab in the picture is 3/4 inch thick...if you make a full run with one piece of slab 1 1/4 thick someone will have lots of fun getting that piece inside the house and installing it.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:10 PM   #36
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
Nice stuff,but the slab in the picture is 3/4 inch thick...if you make a full run with one piece of slab 1 1/4 thick someone will have lots of fun getting that piece inside the house and installing it.
That was the best picture I could find of a sink saver.
What are you new?
That's nothing many kitchens we do have islands that use the whole slab
5' X 10' 3cm
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #37
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


That is completely unacceptable
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:56 PM   #38
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by skyhook View Post
Granite, marble, travertine, wood etc. are all made by nature and are not perfect materials.
If the seam is flat and tight, it is acceptable.
Grain, vien, color and flecks have nothing to do with performance.
Live with it or get a man made product like corion or silestone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Are you saying you would live with either of those tops in your own house?... templates aren't just for size...
If the seam was flat and tight, yes. I would not ask the sub to tear out and scrap a perfectly good piece of stone for purely cosmetic reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coveinspiration View Post
I couldn't look them in the eye and say 'oh that's a natural product' as an excuse
Those are facts, not excuses. When I walk in and see this, already installed, before purchasing the home, it would not be a deal breaker for me. Only because, as a builder of 30+ years, I've heard every excuse, complaint, bh, etc. for details so miniscule, and that have no effect on performance, at this stage in my life, I enjoy seeing things done a little out of the ordinary.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:01 PM   #39
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Hey guys,
I can't thank you all enough. Especially to KAP for the drawings. Sky, this might be ok to you, but they didn't pay an extra $5000.00 for granite left overs. They wanted what was shown to them during the walk through of the show home. I'm in the tile business and would never give a customer a mix of two different batch lots of a color without seeing if it is ok with them. To me, this is no different. You can't put something like this in someones home and try to tell them it's ok because it's natural.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:39 PM   #40
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Re: Bad Granite Counter Installation - Help Please!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Greg, what makes you think that? It's done all the time...
If you have 5x10 slab like someone here said being 1 1/4" thick and being 50sf @ lets take average 18 LB SF = Thats 900 LB. Bringing that into a house, and trying to move that around, not to mention turns, or furniture,etc its not an easy task, not to mention there should be at least 4-5 guys in the truck. But I guess if you have a
5x10" and you order a slab 6X10 because you will not make that top out of 5X10 slab, that must be a big house, so let's assume this is how it's done.

If you make a counter according to the picture, 8' long with a turn, it becomes harder to move that top around and make turns, especially in the house with that kitchen...

With that said, if a company want to send out slabs this size in one piece, and have a crew of 4-5 guys on the truck... what can I say...

The picture that he posted, it shows with a straight slab 3/4 inch thick. I am sure that system works and I'm sure it can be used in some cases, but I did close to 400 kitchen installs in the last 5-6 years, I never seen guys who install my Granite, use slabs that size.

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