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White Residue From Tiles...

 
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Old 06-17-2020, 10:58 AM   #1
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White Residue From Tiles...


I was contacted by a customer to repair their balcony. The previous installer did a good job but now spilling from beneath the tiles is this white residue which after my own research I think it efflorescence. The question is why did that happen?
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:23 PM   #2
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Possibly because cementitious grout was used, instead of epoxy or urethane. Since the former has cement as one of its components, that may have lead to the bleeding. Just a thought.

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Old 06-17-2020, 01:55 PM   #3
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Stone or tile?

Really need a lot more information about install process and material.

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Old 06-17-2020, 02:31 PM   #4
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Thank you for the replies!


Over the roof base the rubber waterproofing membrane was laid, then Mapei Aquadefense was used to glue the Mapeguard UM Underlayment membrane on top of that. Mapei Porcelain Tile thinset was then used to set the porcelain tiles and Polyblend Unsanded grout was applied. No tile spacers were used.
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:23 PM   #5
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Send the pictures to Mapie and Custom. My guess is their response will be the products we’re mixed with to much water.

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Old 06-17-2020, 04:28 PM   #6
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


...or poorly mixed thinset and grout. (Maybe that's what slaking, then remixing is all about.)


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Old 06-17-2020, 06:10 PM   #7
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


I find mortars get over mixed and over wetted, water added to powder instead of powder added to water [same as when I’m baking, dry to wet], water added as it stiffens.

I measure and weigh all my mixes. Drill I use spins @ 250RPM.

Grouts get measured/weighed and hand mixed with a margin trowel.

The measure and weigh comes from an exceedingly expensive warranty claim denial. Wasn’t my job, I learned the lesson after spending a month helping correct the failure.

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Old 06-17-2020, 06:22 PM   #8
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
I find mortars get over mixed and over wetted, water added to powder instead of powder added to water [same as when Iím baking, dry to wet], water added as it stiffens.

I measure and weigh all my mixes. Drill I use spins @ 250RPM.

Grouts get measured/weighed and hand mixed with a margin trowel.

The measure and weigh comes from an exceedingly expensive warranty claim denial. Wasnít my job, I learned the lesson after spending a month helping correct the failure.

Tom
You sir, could be a great baker.
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Old 06-17-2020, 06:24 PM   #9
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
You sir, could be a great baker.
Not me......

(I think we scared her off.......)

Tom
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Old 06-18-2020, 06:13 AM   #10
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Good morning! I am still here


We have used Mapei for many projects, including outdoor, for example.. repairing stonework steps which was attached with the wrong mortar and to create shower slopes. After 20 years of using these products we never measured out water and never think about mixing rpm and have never had problems.

Efflorescence is an absolute anomaly which probably happened due to the company who created the mortar using defective Portland cement. The Portland cement must go through a special heating process and if not done correctly, it causes failure.
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Old 06-18-2020, 07:02 AM   #11
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


If it is a defective ingredient in the mortar, the manufacture will know of the issue. Again, contact the manufacturer.

I’ve seen efflorescence on shower floors to a point where it is not an anomaly.

Good luck with your book, I hope it sells well.

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Old 06-18-2020, 07:57 AM   #12
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


There must be many Portland manufacturers making it wrong then because I have been seeing it in many places the last few years
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:14 AM   #13
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Portland cement effloresces, just a fact.

Modifiers can keep it from efflorescing as badly, but only if the product is mixed correctly

I measure anything with a modifier, it's easy to get the water wrong. Directions count if you want the performance.

There's no sense in asking a question if you already have the answers.
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:15 PM   #14
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


I was one of those "I can guess at the proper mix" people for years. Until an issue arose for a good friend. The redo/repair cost over 10K.

Weighing and measure takes no more time than dump and guess. I marked a 2.5 gallon bucket for water, use a scale for the powder product. I normally work alone, mixing partial bags. A little head math and the water to powder ratio is easy to get right. I mix to the low end of the liquid on the instructions.

If you use SLC, good luck getting it to flow properly without accurate measurements.

I measure out the water, place a bucket on a scale, zero the scale, add 25 pounds of powder, remove bucket from scale, place water in a clean 5 gallon bucket, gradually add the powder, mixing as I add the powder. Do not just dump the powder in the water.

Most products are 3 minute mix, 5 minute slake, 1 minute mix. Check the instructions.

Doing it as above you’ll find your product consistent which really helps while troweling.

If you haven’t tried one, the Rubi euro trowel is really nice.

I mentioned baking——any dry product with a quantity 1 cup or great gets weighed in grams. I have one recipe, 1/8 teaspoon to much of one ingredient makes the finished product uneatable.

Tom
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:20 PM   #15
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


What does that mean you measure the water? Temperature? Amount before mortar? Amount after mortar? Do you have a measuring tub from Mapei?
When I am mixing mortar, first I put enough water so that the consistency is less thick so it will be easy to mix with no dry powder left in the bottom of the bucket. Then I put a little more mortar in to make the paste just right. When you spread the mortar with the trowel the teeth pattern Must remain uncollapsed with also no tears. I always prefer the mortar be a little thicker because mortar is what keeps the tile exactly in the place where i want it.
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:58 PM   #16
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


He means that he measures the quantity of water. All manufacturers have a recommended quantity of water to powder ratio. With enough experience, you can usually get it "good enough" just eyeballing it, but "good enough" is rarely optimum.
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Old 06-18-2020, 03:29 PM   #17
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Try doing surface bonding cement without following directions, and you'll be grinding it back off the wall.

Type of mixer allowed.
Total mixing time.
Product/additive/water ratios allowed.

Tempering not allowed.
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Old 06-18-2020, 03:50 PM   #18
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy Heather View Post
What does that mean you measure the water? Temperature? Amount before mortar? Amount after mortar? Do you have a measuring tub from Mapei?
When I am mixing mortar, first I put enough water so that the consistency is less thick so it will be easy to mix with no dry powder left in the bottom of the bucket. Then I put a little more mortar in to make the paste just right. When you spread the mortar with the trowel the teeth pattern Must remain uncollapsed with also no tears. I always prefer the mortar be a little thicker because mortar is what keeps the tile exactly in the place where i want it.
Quantity of water. Attached is a link to the Mapie TDS for the mortar you listed in an above post. All you need is a translucent bucket you marked out in 1/4 quart increments.

Temperature I like between 60-80 degrees. This is within the specs. Water, I use room temp water.

https://cdnmedia.mapei.com/docs/libr...rsn=a076a419_0

Under "Mixing" it lists;

2.5 to 3 US quarts to 25 pounds or 1.25-1.5 gallons per 50 pounds.
I would mix this with 2.5 quarts.
Notice it states to add the dry to the wet while mixing.

Your "just right" may be what you like, but not the proper chemistry for the product. I’ve used the specs for the mortar listed in a previous post. Not all Mapie mortars have this water mix, other brands vary also.

If you want a super sticky mortar, Laticrete 245. I know Laticrete 245 Platinum takes 2-1/4 gallons of water per 50 pound (3.6 powder to 1 water). I also like All-Set.

Tom

Last edited by tjbnwi; 06-18-2020 at 03:52 PM.
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Old Today, 08:00 AM   #19
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Re: White Residue From Tiles...


I have to wonder if unmodified thin set should have been used. I know if modified thin set is used in certain situations over an uncoupling membrane the thin set takes a very long time to cure. Some of the reason Schluter would recommend unmodified is that the latex could leach out from under the tiles when wet. I saw this first hand years ago when i had a client make up his own decretive tile strip on a piece of Kerdi. he put 2x2 porcelain tile on 8 inch wide strips of Kerdi for me to use as an accent strip. After sitting for about a week i cut them with a wet saw and all this white "milk" was leaching out from under the tiles. I found out later that unmodified should have been used.
This was my first experience with Schluter about 15 years ago. I know your materials are not Schluter but the same might apply to your situation.

Nicko

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