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Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?

 
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:20 PM   #21
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


Problem is as some have said, they drop tile on thinset, the slab has probably soaked up water leaving the top dry and unable to bond properly to tile, there are videos out on how to set "large" tile.

Varying degrees of tile bonding to slab occurs, me, when ripping up I prefer thinset to bond to back of tile so grinding is a minimum.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:21 PM   #22
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
It says your trade is "General".
Your point?

EDIT: and this coming from the guy listed as "control systems" who was the first to respond.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:22 PM   #23
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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Originally Posted by brunothedog View Post
in all my years I've never back buttered tiles.
never had a problem
so wtf is going on?
I know a lot of guys that get away with not using best practices.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:44 PM   #24
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


If you can set a tile without backbuttering then that is one step more efficient.

Backbuttering holds a lot better and a machine spitting out tile plastered with thinset would be nice.

Some thinset boasts no backbuttering necessary. You really need to mash the tile into thinset in a back and forth motion, collapsing all the ridges and working thinset into back of tile. Still a lot of mold release on backs of tile which is another bond breaker.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:12 PM   #25
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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I know a lot of guys that get away with not using best practices.
dont be so hard on yourself
maybe one day it will come to you
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:20 PM   #26
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Your point?

EDIT: and this coming from the guy listed as "control systems" who was the first to respond.
I didn't chew his ass out.
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Old 06-20-2015, 07:46 PM   #27
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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I didn't chew his ass out.
I didn't chew anyone out. You add inflection and voice. You misread it. I just asked a bunch of questions and then said a customer deserves better.
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Old 06-20-2015, 07:48 PM   #28
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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Originally Posted by brunothedog View Post
dont be so hard on yourself
maybe one day it will come to you
I'm always learning and trying to improve my skills and knowledge. My point was you should not learn certain things at others expense.
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:19 PM   #29
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


We still don't have much detail, but did someone walk all over the tile after you left and unbonded the tile.

I always wet the slab with sponge, not leaving water on surface because the thinset won't bond to water puddle. But the slab soaks in water, if you don't introduce water, then it will pull it out of thinset.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:39 AM   #30
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


I really appreciate the advice thank y'all
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:45 AM   #31
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


My personal default is not to back-butter, though I will do it if I have problems with bonding, in difficult situations, certain tiles, uneven substrates, etc. I am very comfortable that my tiles are not going to come loose or have hollow spots.

My main tile-setting employee, on the other hand, back-butters in all situations. There's nothing wrong with it except for a loss of some productivity, and if that's what he needs to succeed, then that's great. I would definitely recommend back-buttering for someone whose tile install has failed for lack of bonding.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:02 PM   #32
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
My personal default is not to back-butter, though I will do it if I have problems with bonding, in difficult situations, certain tiles, uneven substrates, etc. I am very comfortable that my tiles are not going to come loose or have hollow spots.

My main tile-setting employee, on the other hand, back-butters in all situations. There's nothing wrong with it except for a loss of some productivity, and if that's what he needs to succeed, then that's great. I would definitely recommend back-buttering for someone whose tile install has failed for lack of bonding.
We back butter everything. I'll trade a few minutes for knowledge that I have achieved 100% coverage. But hollow spots don't come from the lack of backbuttering. It's simply not enough thinset, the tile was not "set" but just laid down or bad technique.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:28 PM   #33
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


You're a little off, don't take it personal but rarely will you get 100%.

And Hollow spots, ok can be various reasons, it can be years afterward, and tile can explode off the floor due to pressure or simply rise up.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:02 PM   #34
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


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You're a little off, don't take it personal but rarely will you get 100%.

And Hollow spots, ok can be various reasons, it can be years afterward, and tile can explode off the floor due to pressure or simply rise up.
Nah, I get 100% coverage. Don't be jealous, you'll get there some day.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:17 PM   #35
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


I like you TNT, you go the distance. Your wrong but that's ok with me,

I simply do not get jealous, not setting too much these days, just Demoing the old and failed jobs. It doesn't have to be set like steel, I'll give you a few bucks to hold back a little so demo will be easy.
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Old 06-21-2015, 01:46 PM   #36
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


Mapei on this side of the pond does many seminars thru-out the year with their reps and I have help them run quite a few times, thou, I do not lay tile full time.
They do not recommend back buttering, instead they (WE) insist in the correct spread of thin set for the job at hand,
I do back butter only sills and steps as all windows here are in granite or marble and we use a little different system then laying them in mortar.

to hear all you's saying back buttering is better is just plain wrong, from their veiw point, as in mine,

terracotto tiles on the otherhand are a different animal and require in 90% of the jobs back buttering,
hollow comes from not spreading the thinset as required, change out to a bigger notched trowel, or smaller,

I personally like the bigger notched trowels 1cm x 1cm toothed, seperated.

maybe I esagerate in the thin set i use Mapei S-1, costs around a dollar a pound,
but then again i do have to give 10 yrs of guarentee and never had a recall since the 90's.
take care
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Old 06-21-2015, 02:51 PM   #37
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


Quote:
Originally Posted by brunothedog View Post
Mapei on this side of the pond does many seminars thru-out the year with their reps and I have help them run quite a few times, thou, I do not lay tile full time.
They do not recommend back buttering, instead they (WE) insist in the correct spread of thin set for the job at hand,
I do back butter only sills and steps as all windows here are in granite or marble and we use a little different system then laying them in mortar.

to hear all you's saying back buttering is better is just plain wrong, from their veiw point, as in mine,

terracotto tiles on the otherhand are a different animal and require in 90% of the jobs back buttering,
hollow comes from not spreading the thinset as required, change out to a bigger notched trowel, or smaller,

I personally like the bigger notched trowels 1cm x 1cm toothed, seperated.

maybe I esagerate in the thin set i use Mapei S-1, costs around a dollar a pound,
but then again i do have to give 10 yrs of guarentee and never had a recall since the 90's.
take care
It is better. It guarantees better coverage. The entire back side is covered with no voids. Adhesion is darn near 100%.

Here's is what Mapei says on the ultralite. And the picture even shows the installer backbuttering a tile.
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Old 06-21-2015, 03:35 PM   #38
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
We back butter everything. I'll trade a few minutes for knowledge that I have achieved 100% coverage.
Backbuttering only covers the back of the tile. This dose not mean that there is %100 mortar and no airspace between the tile and substrate which is what 100% coverage is referring to.

On a bunny trail.
If the mortar is skimming or not wanting to transfer to the tile (even if the mortar is loose sometimes it still does not want to stick) back-buttering defiantly helps in both initial adhesion and cured bond strength.
Backbuttering and then using too small trowel size for the format is worse than proper trowel size and not backbuttering, even if it uses the same amount of mortar per SqFt
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Old 06-21-2015, 04:33 PM   #39
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


I believe NTCA recommends minimum 85% interior, 95% exterior. Not sure bro, your forcing me to learn, I'm a tired man!

Not even germs are killed 100%, 99.9 as in life, nothing is guaranteed.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:33 PM   #40
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Re: Tile Won't Stick To Thinset?


Quote:
Originally Posted by charimon View Post
Backbuttering only covers the back of the tile. This dose not mean that there is %100 mortar and no airspace between the tile and substrate which is what 100% coverage is referring to.

On a bunny trail.
If the mortar is skimming or not wanting to transfer to the tile (even if the mortar is loose sometimes it still does not want to stick) back-buttering defiantly helps in both initial adhesion and cured bond strength.
Backbuttering and then using too small trowel size for the format is worse than proper trowel size and not backbuttering, even if it uses the same amount of mortar per SqFt
If I have troweled properly the thinset on the substrate will cover and give close to 100% adhesion.

And I agree we can come up many scenarios with a million things that would be better than improperly laying thinset and backbuttering, doesn't change the fact that proper techniques all around with backbuttering is better.

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