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Ledge Stone Backsplash

 
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:01 PM   #1
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Ledge Stone Backsplash


I have a customer wanting a 6x24 splitface ledge Stone as a backsplash. I've used it previously as a fireplace, but as a backsplash I am concerned about the way the outlets and wallplates will turnout. This is because what they picked is highly variable in thickness from 1/2" to 1-1/4". I am not the electrician, and the switches and outlets aren't even there yet just the boxes. Should I not even sorry about it, or is there any advice from my fellow installers.

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Old 11-12-2017, 08:35 PM   #2
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


See if you can have the electrician remove the boxes, then install these on the cabinets.

https://tasklighting.com/angle-power-strip/

Other than that you may have to under cut where the boxes are to plane out the receptacles and plates.

Tom

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:01 PM   #3
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
See if you can have the electrician remove the boxes, then install these on the cabinets.

https://tasklighting.com/angle-power-strip/

Other than that you may have to under cut where the boxes are to plane out the receptacles and plates.

Tom
Do those meet the code requirements for outlet spacing?
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:45 PM   #4
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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Do those meet the code requirements for outlet spacing?
When installed to meet the 2' requirement. The 48" unit comes with three receptacles, 72" unit comes with 4 receptacles they easily qualify.

One issue may be the 54" max height in the ADA. I'd have to look more into this requirement at counter tops.

I've never had them questioned.

Tom
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:04 PM   #5
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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When installed to meet the 2' requirement. The 48" unit comes with three receptacles, 72" unit comes with 4 receptacles they easily qualify.

One issue may be the 54" max height in the ADA. I'd have to look more into this requirement at counter tops.

I've never had them questioned.

Tom
The spacing would be my concern, it would be whether these qualified as an "outlet".
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:59 AM   #6
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


Homeowner changed up his backsplash last minute so outlets were already in place.. I picked out the flattest pieces to use around the outlets and chiseled off any small high spots that held the plates off the wall.

The entire backsplash should have been the glass used behind the stove, but I guess they thought they were being funky.
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Ledge Stone backsplash-img_2546.jpg   Ledge Stone backsplash-img_2545.jpg  

Last edited by Splinter; 11-15-2017 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:24 AM   #7
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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The spacing would be my concern, it would be whether these qualified as an "outlet".
What concern do you have about whether or not they qualify as a receptacle? (By definition in the NEC they are definitely an outlet).

Tom
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:51 AM   #8
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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What concern do you have about whether or not they qualify as a receptacle? (By definition in the NEC they are definitely an outlet).

Tom
Is it permanent? They are listed as a power strip. I couldn't run a bunch of power strips off of an outlet across a backsplash and meet the 24 and 48" rule.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:58 AM   #9
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


I ran into the same issue on a job like that. The 6x24 slabs were glued together from pieces. To make it smooth around the outlets I seperated the pieces and matched them up which gave it a smooth face to overset my outlet plates. I scored the back side of the glue with a knife and seperated them into desired pieces.

I think you did something quite similar but all those "little extras" really take time to make it look good.

I dislike when HO's change their minds. In my experience, it's almost the norm. I always include a "add-on/changes" in my contracts and let them know they'll be charged if it takes more labor or materials..or both. No free rides anymore.

Last edited by kirkdc; 11-15-2017 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:00 PM   #10
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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Is it permanent? They are listed as a power strip. I couldn't run a bunch of power strips off of an outlet across a backsplash and meet the 24 and 48" rule.
As permanent as any other device once mounted in place.

I don’t see why a power strip screwed to the wall would not qualify either, I believe the code calls for a receptacle (I’ll check the wording later) no more than 2’ from point to point, not an outlet.

Tom

Last edited by tjbnwi; 11-15-2017 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:01 PM   #11
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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I don’t see why a power strip screwed to the wall would not qualify either, I believe the code calls for a receptacle (I’ll check the wording later) no more than 2’ from point to point, not an outlet.
I've never had occasion to find out, but I have a feeling some inspectors would allow it, and others wouldn't. Matter of interpretation--though you'd like to think that permanently affixed would tilt the scales toward acceptance.

The rule is actually that no point along the wall line can be no more than 2' away, so they can actually be spaced 4' apart.

Terminology: An outlet is any point-of-use connection location, which includes light fixtures, receptacles and whatever else I can't think of at the moment.

Code for countertops specifically uses the term "receptacle outlet".
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:52 PM   #12
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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I've never had occasion to find out, but I have a feeling some inspectors would allow it, and others wouldn't. Matter of interpretation--though you'd like to think that permanently affixed would tilt the scales toward acceptance.

The rule is actually that no point along the wall line can be no more than 2' away, so they can actually be spaced 4' apart.

Terminology: An outlet is any point-of-use connection location, which includes light fixtures, receptacles and whatever else I can't think of at the moment.

Code for countertops specifically uses the term "receptacle outlet".
They'd have to site the code that says you can't.

I've done 3 surface systems, one was in a commercial kitchen.

That's why I one of my previous post I asked about receptacles and stated these definitely meet the NEC definition of n outlet.

The reason I used the term point to point is that's how I measure.

Counter edge from front to wall, measure 2', a receptacle needs to be in the zone, place at point 1

Measure 2' from point 1, this is point 2.

Measure 2' from point 2, this is point 3, a receptacle needs to be in the zone from 2 to 3.

Tom
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:38 PM   #13
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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They'd have to site the code that says you can't.
Code doesn't say what you can't do; that list would be endless. I get what you're saying, but it's usually not worth the battle if you're going to be dealing with that same inspector regularly.

Quote:
The reason I used the term point to point is that's how I measure.

Counter edge from front to wall, measure 2', a receptacle needs to be in the zone, place at point 1

Measure 2' from point 1, this is point 2.

Measure 2' from point 2, this is point 3, a receptacle needs to be in the zone from 2 to 3.
That'll definitely CYA, but it's overkill unless I'm misunderstanding you. Code explicitly states "along the wall line". No reference at all to the front edge of the counter.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:30 PM   #14
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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Code doesn't say what you can't do; that list would be endless. I get what you're saying, but it's usually not worth the battle if you're going to be dealing with that same inspector regularly.



That'll definitely CYA, but it's overkill unless I'm misunderstanding you. Code explicitly states "along the wall line". No reference at all to the front edge of the counter.
I'll try to better explain the front edge better comment.

Your standing at a counter, to the right is no wall to the left a wall. Your starting point should be the edge to the right. You need a receptacle no more than 2' from that edge.

Also it is not all wall space at/above counted for receptacles. Edges of sinks and other items will create more start stop points.

Tom
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:45 PM   #15
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


Gotcha. I think we're just saying the same thing in different ways. Still, the takeaway is that all else being equal, 4' between outlets is kosher.

The idea is that with most countertop appliances having 2' cords, you should be able to situate one pretty much anywhere on the counter and have the cord reach an outlet. I know you know that.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:45 AM   #16
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


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Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
Homeowner changed up his backsplash last minute so outlets were already in place.. I picked out the flattest pieces to use around the outlets and chiseled off any small high spots that held the plates off the wall.

The entire backsplash should have been the glass used behind the stove, but I guess they thought they were being funky.
I kinda like the look, plus makes sense to have an easy to clean tile behind the range.

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Old 11-16-2017, 01:51 PM   #17
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Re: Ledge Stone Backsplash


I did something similar for a game room bar for Jaws. I kept a cordless grinder with diamond wheel nearby to flatten the area around the plates. Some of the thicker pieces I popped out and replaced with thin pieces


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