Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi - Tiling - Contractor Talk

Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-06-2015, 11:19 PM   #1
Pro
 
mike gunderson's Avatar
 
Trade: general, remodeling specialty
Join Date: May 2010
Location: flaxville mt
Posts: 154
Rewards Points: 183

Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


I've seen this talked about before, but I have another question on this topic. If i just have say a 4" accent strip of mosaics in my shower I have always used ditraset to adhere them just like the rest of my tile. I have never had a problem. They seem to stick as well as the field tile. Am i looking at problems in the future years with this method?

Thanks, Mike
mike gunderson is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 05-07-2015, 12:23 AM   #2
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


I feel like a broken record. I know there are the fancy Schluter workshops and they put the fear of the devil in you about using modified thinsets over their membranes.

HydroBan
AquaDefense
RedGard
NobleSeal
WediPanels
Green Skin
are all popular membranes and all of them don't restrict you to using unmodified thinset to install tile. So please tell me, what magic does Schluter use that these other membranes don't have?

It's common the refer to the manufacturers of products for specialized installation instructions when veering off the path of TCNA recommendations. So, I recommend if the glass manufacturer suggests a modified thinset to install their glass, that's what you should consider...even though that goes against Schluter. You're not gonna melt the Kerdi with a modified thinset.

Advertisement

__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to angus242 For This Useful Post:
avenge (05-07-2015), TNTRenovate (05-07-2015)
Old 05-07-2015, 12:34 AM   #3
diplomat
 
Golden view's Avatar
 
Trade: Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PDX
Posts: 5,292
Rewards Points: 1,550

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Their reasoning being that modified thinsets need to dry and their impermeable membrane might prevent that.

I've often wondered about the technical side of that though. Modified thinset is still Portland cement. Doesn't the cement portion set the same as unmodified, and then as the polymers dry they do their thing?

I can say from my limited experience that modified will give a much better bond to kerdi with glass tiles.
__________________
You make something idiot proof and the world invents a better idiot.
Golden view is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-07-2015, 12:38 AM   #4
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Modified needs air to cure. Unmodified is self-curing.
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 06:25 AM   #5
Pro
 
MIKE ANTONETTI's Avatar
 
Trade: FLOORING CONTRACTOR
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: CITRUS COUNTY
Posts: 1,751
Rewards Points: 3,514

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


There's set and cure, two different things. I say put some modified under water a few days see what happens.
MIKE ANTONETTI is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 06:38 AM   #6
Hair Splitter
 
TNTRenovate's Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 18,322
Rewards Points: 1,268

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE ANTONETTI View Post
There's set and cure, two different things. I say put some modified under water a few days see what happens.
What real world condition does that simulate?
__________________
Tried & True on Facebook
Tried & True Website
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
TNTRenovate is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to TNTRenovate For This Useful Post:
Old 05-07-2015, 07:53 AM   #7
Pro
 
GO Remodeling's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,523
Rewards Points: 96

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Depending on the glass tile size. The thinset dries from the outside edge to the center of the tile. A large glass tile could take a several days longer to dry thoroughly. I haven't had any problems with small mosaics and modified over membranes,
GO Remodeling is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GO Remodeling For This Useful Post:
angus242 (05-07-2015)
Old 05-07-2015, 07:54 AM   #8
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 26,075
Rewards Points: 5,076

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
What real world condition does that simulate?
Put a wad of it in a food saver vac sealer.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 08:42 AM   #9
Pro
 
MIKE ANTONETTI's Avatar
 
Trade: FLOORING CONTRACTOR
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: CITRUS COUNTY
Posts: 1,751
Rewards Points: 3,514

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Ok, so put it in ziplock bag
MIKE ANTONETTI is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 08:51 AM   #10
diplomat
 
Golden view's Avatar
 
Trade: Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PDX
Posts: 5,292
Rewards Points: 1,550

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Schluter has claimed reduced bond strength after even 60 days.
__________________
You make something idiot proof and the world invents a better idiot.
Golden view is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 08:52 AM   #11
Pro
 
TaylorMadeAB's Avatar
 
Trade: Renovations
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 794
Rewards Points: 1,686

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
I feel like a broken record. I know there are the fancy Schluter workshops and they put the fear of the devil in you about using modified thinsets over their products. You're not gonna melt the Kerdi with a modified thinset.

I'm at a Schulter workshop this very second, and I thought it would be that way. Our instructor is actually being very open minded about real world practices. He is saying that Schulter recommends non-modified for over top, BUT they won't run from the warranty if it made sense to use modified. They basically want you to use your brain and understand the properties of both types of thinsets, and use the appropriate one.
And again, Ardex will actually take over Schluter's warranty if you use their product.
TaylorMadeAB is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to TaylorMadeAB For This Useful Post:
HS345 (05-08-2015)
Old 05-07-2015, 09:02 AM   #12
Pro
 
mike gunderson's Avatar
 
Trade: general, remodeling specialty
Join Date: May 2010
Location: flaxville mt
Posts: 154
Rewards Points: 183

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


No one has answered my question whether or not using ditraset on these small tiles will be a failure in the future. I definitely would not use this method for big glass tile that have a lot of weight.
mike gunderson is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 09:07 AM   #13
Pro
 
charimon's Avatar
 
Trade: Tile and Tool junkie
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Omaha NE
Posts: 1,857
Rewards Points: 1,168

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


no It will not
they will be fine
charimon is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to charimon For This Useful Post:
angus242 (05-07-2015), HS345 (05-08-2015), Wile E Coyote (05-07-2015)
Old 05-07-2015, 09:52 AM   #14
Pro
 
MIKE ANTONETTI's Avatar
 
Trade: FLOORING CONTRACTOR
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: CITRUS COUNTY
Posts: 1,751
Rewards Points: 3,514

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


There were situations where glass tile has cracked I believe from thinset shrinking. I would use setting material designed for glass.
MIKE ANTONETTI is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 10:39 AM   #15
Pro
 
CO762's Avatar
 
Trade: Organic Mold Farmer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,858
Rewards Points: 4,534

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
I feel like a broken record.
You don't like answering the same questions over and over and over and over again? I could see a site like bridges that was setup to make money off of the diy types, but for me, the last thing I want to do is go home at the end of the day and answer the same stupid questions over and over. Guess that's why I generally hang out in the general section or politics--more interesting for me.

Unfortunately, the tile and stone trade has become that and it makes sense when it's gadget driven by manufacturers. Their widgets are like an apple computer--dumbed down so anyone can use them....but if they try and use something else or run into something not totally contained within that 'system', they lean back and have a blank look on their face.

Don't know if it's intellectually lazy people or just lazy people or just normal people that jumped into a trade where the latest and greatest gadgets rule.

TEC is taking over the world. Normal big box stores I don't expect anything from their people other than stocking the shelves (except plumb/elect). They need to just shut up and help the person load their shopping cart. But what's funny is I went to a local tile shop and one big flooring center that also does installs/uses subs. Both use/sell TEC and both were wrong about their products on many points.

What's funny is it seems like they have no other idea of any other products other than what they sell/use. I ask them if they have something comparable to X. I get a blank look and they say they don't know anything about their products. So I buy a few of their brand to try out, get the data/sell sheets, talk to the tech dept, then realize what I thought didn't make sense....didn't. It was wrong.
There seems to be so much knowledge (and skill sets) being lost in this trade.

On a side note, I think the tech reps are happy to actually get asked questions that will make them think and test their knowledge, not only of their products, but the process of 'what, why, where and when' as it applies to their products. But even some of them need to be pulled out of canned 'product recommendations' cue cards/computer/scripts.
__________________
NY Times...."Prison Population Growing Although Crime Rate Drops..."
CO762 is offline  
Old 05-07-2015, 11:45 AM   #16
Carpe Diem
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: Smile 4 Tile
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,533
Rewards Points: 1,114

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorMadeCon View Post
I'm at a Schulter workshop this very second, and I thought it would be that way. Our instructor is actually being very open minded about real world practices. He is saying that Schulter recommends non-modified for over top, BUT they won't run from the warranty if it made sense to use modified. They basically want you to use your brain and understand the properties of both types of thinsets, and use the appropriate one.
And again, Ardex will actually take over Schluter's warranty if you use their product.
The 2nd most thing brought up with Schluter is warranty. I defer to the question of how many Kerdi/Ditra failures have you heard of? Yes, there was the case of some fleece issue but your choice of thinset would not have fixed that problem. If your tile fails when installed over Kerdi/Ditra, let's face it. It's your fault, not theirs.

Be smarter than the tile. It's not hard but it does take some time to learn the products you are using. Thinset is probably the product most commonly abused. I've seen so many guys not mix it properly. It is by far, the most important product in a tile installation. Yet, you hardly see the amount of time wasted arguing about it like you do Schluter specs.

Educate yourself on what thinset is and what makes it do its thing. Learn a product line so you can be informed on what to use and when. That will make a great installation.

Oh and if you're worried about glass and Kerdi, just use a rapid set. It's modified and self-curing. Even the thinset nazis at Schluter won't argue with using rapid set.
__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to angus242 For This Useful Post:
CarpenterSFO (05-09-2015), TaylorMadeAB (05-07-2015), TNTRenovate (05-07-2015), Xtrememtnbiker (05-07-2015)
Old 05-08-2015, 09:52 PM   #17
Tile Contractor
 
HS345's Avatar
 
Trade: Ceramic and Natural Stone Tile Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherrodsville, Ohio
Posts: 1,030
Rewards Points: 886

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
You're not gonna melt the Kerdi with a modified thinset.
Oh yes you are. If you use modified thinset over Kerdi you run the risk of starting a chain reaction that could ultimately destroy the universe.

Which is why my go-to over Kerdi is Ardex X-5. Please.....put me out of my misery.
__________________
Greg
HS345 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to HS345 For This Useful Post:
angus242 (05-08-2015)
Old 05-08-2015, 09:54 PM   #18
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 26,075
Rewards Points: 5,076

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by HS345 View Post
Oh yes you are. If you use modified thinset over Kerdi you run the risk of starting a chain reaction that could ultimately destroy the universe.

Which is why my go-to over Kerdi is Ardex X-5. Please.....put me out of my misery.
You risk causing a tear in the space time continuum.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post:
HS345 (05-08-2015)
Old 05-08-2015, 09:56 PM   #19
Tile Contractor
 
HS345's Avatar
 
Trade: Ceramic and Natural Stone Tile Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherrodsville, Ohio
Posts: 1,030
Rewards Points: 886

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by angus242 View Post
Modified needs air to cure. Unmodified is self-curing.
Ardex makes some fine "self curing", or, "self hydrating" modified mortars.
__________________
Greg
HS345 is offline  
Old 05-08-2015, 09:57 PM   #20
Tile Contractor
 
HS345's Avatar
 
Trade: Ceramic and Natural Stone Tile Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherrodsville, Ohio
Posts: 1,030
Rewards Points: 886

Re: Glass Mosaic Accent Tile Over Kerdi


Quote:
Originally Posted by mike gunderson View Post
No one has answered my question whether or not using ditraset on these small tiles will be a failure in the future. I definitely would not use this method for big glass tile that have a lot of weight.
I doubt it would cause a failure in the future. What type of glass tiles are they, exactly?

Advertisement

__________________
Greg
HS345 is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Glass mosaic tile cutter reccomendation Cmac9000 Tiling 2 03-26-2014 10:59 AM
Stupid question? Anyone ever mix sodium bicarbonate with recycled glass? MasterBlaster Sandblasting 7 03-23-2013 06:14 PM
Amazing glass and tile cutter Tweed11 Tiling 17 10-31-2012 10:23 PM
one step glass tile install GO Remodeling Tiling 7 06-10-2012 07:16 PM
tile tops, star glass... ideas?? Tech Dawg Tiling 6 07-11-2011 08:23 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?