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Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?

 
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:00 AM   #1
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Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Hi all...

We'll be installing roughly 1200 square feet of 24" x 36" x 2" granite 'tiles' over a concrete slab. We are about 2 hours North of Toronto, Ontario... a good deal of freeze/thaw activity in the winter as well as pretty warm Summer months.
The architect has specified that we use a decoupling membrane for this install. I've never used one in an exterior application before and have always been leery of doing so. My fear is that due to expansion/contraction of stone and grout joints, water WILL find it's way in under the stones eventually. I have visions of it sitting there in the voids in the membrane and then doing damage during freeze/thaw cycles. (perhaps though, the decoupling membrane itself will absorb any expansion from the freezing water?)

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:20 AM   #2
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Talk to the architect about your concerns and if he has no concerns or problems then any issues are on him provided you installed as per instructions/blueprints/plans


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Old 02-11-2018, 08:26 AM   #3
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


You would have to use a system like Schluter and follow their design recommendations to the letter. Most or all such systems are made for thinset installation though...Not mud set stone. I would talk to both Schluter and Noble building products. I doubt the architect will be of much use.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:40 AM   #4
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Schluter Troba.

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Old 02-11-2018, 09:41 AM   #5
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


I have little faith in Architects as it is much less in products they don't install or warranty.
Contact the matter manufacturer
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:04 PM   #6
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Another vote for Schluter system. I drank the orange Kool-Aid!
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:56 AM   #7
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Definitely call your area Schluter rep and discuss with them before even quoting.

They briefly touch on this during the workshops, and end with basically saying just that. There are a lot of pieces that go into this puzzle

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Old 02-12-2018, 08:42 AM   #8
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


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Originally Posted by Tom M View Post
I have little faith in Architects as it is much less in products they don't install or warranty.
Contact the matter manufacturer


In my opinion it matters more who is ultimately responsible when something goes wrong. If the architect signs off and is held responsible for any issues then that is the route I take.

Ask me how I know, during any sort of law suit you want to make sure your work does not deviate from plans, blueprints, specifications or products (using different than specified)


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Old 02-12-2018, 09:12 AM   #9
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


They copy general notes from one job to the next even when some of the things dont apply. Then through in a few "as per code", "verify in the field", "as specified by manufacturer"......and its back on you.

I hear you though Im just saying. I pound these guys with calls when reviewing plans to get rid of the riddles
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:07 PM   #10
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Have the architect go a step further,let them pick and choose the exact product they want installed and follow the manufacture's installation guide lines too a T. Save all communications with architect and verify installation with photos etc. The ball is then out of your court.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:52 PM   #11
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


Thank you for your input everyone... much appreciated.
I'm eagerly awaiting a call back from the Architect after expressing my concerns to his 'assistant'.
Also spoke with a technical rep for Ardex who recommended against using a decoupling membrane in our situation... suggested 'control' joints instead which I tend to agree with.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:27 PM   #12
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


I hope there is gravel under the slab. Good luck, let us know.

Also some info that may or may not help you.
https://www.constructionspecifier.co...-installation/
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:41 AM   #13
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


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I hope there is gravel under the slab. Good luck, let us know.

]




Along with a minimum of 3/8" re bar on 18" grid.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:04 PM   #14
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


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Along with a minimum of 3/8" re bar on 18" grid.
Absolutely no worries there... several feet of clear gravel under the 10" concrete slab with a double layer of 5/8 rebar on a 12" grid

Slab is approximately 30 x 40' and is supported on a perimeter frost wall which bears directly on bedrock... a couple of 'interior' dividing walls as well. Overkill at its finest!
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:14 PM   #15
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


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Absolutely no worries there... several feet of clear gravel under the 10" concrete slab with a double layer of 5/8 rebar on a 12" grid

Slab is approximately 30 x 40' and is supported on a perimeter frost wall which bears directly on bedrock... a couple of 'interior' dividing walls as well. Overkill at its finest!
Then why put a layer of air under there?

JMO, IDK, tried and true.

Not sure of the layout, but at 30 X 40 I'd probably still use the expansion joints. Maybe on the dividing walls.

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Old 02-17-2018, 03:18 PM   #16
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


unless its over a living space using schluter or any other water proofing membrane does not make sense to me. I suppose if the concrete cracks in theory it may not follow thru to the stone. But at 10" I would think cracking is less likely.
You could use a thick bed thinset to lay the stone if thin set is required. It's a pain in the ass, expensive and messy. If used with a bonding agent as required it will be super strong and probably water proof.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #17
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Re: Decoupling Membrane For Exterior Installation...?


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Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
In my opinion it matters more who is ultimately responsible when something goes wrong. If the architect signs off and is held responsible for any issues then that is the route I take.

Ask me how I know, during any sort of law suit you want to make sure your work does not deviate from plans, blueprints, specifications or products (using different than specified)


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