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Best Backerboard

 
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:55 AM   #1
 
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Best Backerboard


Project is a small 6 X 9 bathroom, complete remodel. Using ceramic tile on floor, not the shower.

Would like to try 1/2" DensShield as a backerboar on the floor because it looks so easy to use. Last use was Durock. Also considering Certaineed fiber cement board and Permabase cement board.

Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated. Any reason not to try the DensShield 1/2 on the floor? Thanks. Spike.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:17 PM   #2
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Re: Best Backerboard


I don't know how anyone could prove which of the dozens of backerboards are best, but when I think about it, Denshield does not come to mind. It will work, I used it for floors and walls some time ago. Its main attribute, easier and cheaper. I now use only Ditra membrane and try to avoid boards whenever possible.

You don't need 1/2" on floors unless you want the extra height.

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Old 01-14-2010, 08:19 PM   #3
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Re: Best Backerboard


I, too, no longer use CBU and go with Ditra.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:49 PM   #4
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Re: Best Backerboard


I've recently been using "Green e-board" which is an unfortunate and confusing name as it isn't green in colour, and has nothing to do with the old green drywall that didn't work for so many years.

It is not calcium based, but magnesium, and is apparently a waste product from some industrial process (hence the 'green' I guess), it is extremely light unlike most cbu, and easy to cut, score/snap, drill and scroll cut with hand or power tools.

You experts come across this stuff? ( I guess not, for anyone who has already gone with Ditra)
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:20 PM   #5
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Re: Best Backerboard


A guy came through the other tile forum awhile back pushing a product called Magnesiacore... Same thing, made from post industrial waste. The guy met a lot of resistance because he made some really wild claims about the stuff. Said it was good for everything including eating it for breakfast.
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:16 PM   #6
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Re: Best Backerboard


Durock= Okay, a bit prone to blowout on toenailed edges, nice and dense.
Wonderboard= Really hard and stiff, tough to nail through, really heavy.
Permabase= Handles well, stiff, nails well, use it a lot.
Hardiboard= Personally I don't trust it. Set it outside and watch it delaminate.
Denshield= Don't like that fiber dust. You can peel the surface off.
Easyboard= Never used it, I don't trust it anything I can put my fist through.

1/4" Permabase laminated with quality latex thinset. Used it for 10 years+ with no issues.

To each, his own.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:37 PM   #7
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Re: Best Backerboard


DITRA!!! No more dust or heavy lifting!
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:57 PM   #8
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Re: Best Backerboard


I've used hardibacker and denshield. Personally I like denshield as it's extremely easy to work with. Cut it like drywall and is certainly lighter than hardibacker.
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:20 PM   #9
 
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Re: Best Backerboard


Thanks everyone for the thoughts and advice. I think I'm going to try the DensShield. Small floor only area. Water/mositure really not a problem. Ease of application probably the deciding factor for me.
Thanks again, Spike
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:21 AM   #10
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Re: Best Backerboard


Quote:
Originally Posted by spike8 View Post
Ease of application probably the deciding factor for me.
You want ease?

Cuts with a razor easier than cardboard. Lighter than any backboard. Much better uncoupling material than backerboard. No screws or nails to install. Vapor barrier. Has been manufactured and used since the mid 80's.

DITRA
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:26 AM   #11
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Re: Best Backerboard


Quote:
Originally Posted by reveivl View Post
I've recently been using "Green e-board" which is an unfortunate and confusing name as it isn't green in colour, and has nothing to do with the old green drywall that didn't work for so many years.

It is not calcium based, but magnesium, and is apparently a waste product from some industrial process (hence the 'green' I guess), it is extremely light unlike most cbu, and easy to cut, score/snap, drill and scroll cut with hand or power tools.

You experts come across this stuff? ( I guess not, for anyone who has already gone with Ditra)
I'm using this on a job right now. Good stuff.

I can't just use ditra since it's an outdoor job.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:47 PM   #12
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Re: Best Backerboard


Ditra is great for outdoors. What type of installation is it?

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Old 01-17-2010, 07:12 PM   #13
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Re: Best Backerboard


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Ditra is great for outdoors. What type of installation is it?

Jaz
I've already been through all the details and talked with the schluter rep to make sure what everything I'm doing will still cover me under manufacturer's warranty.

According to local code I need a roofing membrane and ditra or kerdi don't count.

I have 2x8 @ 12oc spanning 6' -> 3/4 ply -> 1/2 CBU -> Jiffy Seal (roofing membrane) -> Ditra-Drain (drainage layer) -> Tile

Using Mapei Granirapid.

Last edited by Winchester; 01-17-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:28 PM   #14
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Re: Best Backerboard


OK, you've got a special situation and sounds like your local building department isn't familiar with alternative products and methods. But you're using Ditra, looks like.

It sounded as if you were saying Ditra is not for outdoor use.

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Old 01-17-2010, 11:59 PM   #15
 
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Re: Best Backerboard


I dont know why everyone goes nuts when a mfg co. introduces a new product.They make claims that these products are good for 50 years.but just started production.Stick with proven methods Durock or wonderboard screwed or nailed down ontop of 3/8 thinset.I have never seen concrete rot out in my 35 years!

Last edited by rossi inc.; 01-18-2010 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:38 AM   #16
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Re: Best Backerboard


Hey Rossi,

What new unproven product or methods are you referring to?

Wonderboard first made by Fin-Pan, came out in the early '70's, others followed soon after. Ditra was extensively tested then introduced in 1987, I believe they have only made one modification since. They all have a place.

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Old 01-18-2010, 12:50 PM   #17
 
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Re: Best Backerboard


Hey Jaz,thanks for the feed back...There are suppliers offering tile adhesive products that allow ceramic tile to be bonded directly to linolium or wood flooring.Another one is hardi backer.Leave a pice out it the rain for an hour and see what it looks like.I wouldnt use it in my bathroom.A few years ago there was a mfg selling a gypsum based tile underlayment,looked exactly the same as 1/2 inch drywall complete with a papper exterior.As for schluter ditra,Lots of guys use it and have claimed to have no problem,so I am not saying that ALL of these products are inferior
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:03 PM   #18
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Re: Best Backerboard


Quote:
Originally Posted by rossi inc. View Post
Stick with proven methods Durock or wonderboard screwed or nailed down ontop of 3/8 thinset.I have never seen concrete rot out in my 35 years!
Rossi,

Even USG recently "updated" Durock.

Use a waterproofing membrane and/or liquid and you keep moisture from getting the chance to rot anything out. That's why I don't worry about backerboards.

If I have a project such as a fireplace surround, I would choice Durock. Otherwise, skip the heavy, dusty backerboards all together and just use Ditra/Kerdi.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:40 PM   #19
 
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Re: Best Backerboard


Angus, I have seen some guys put a waterproof membrane over the durock in a custom shower.Is that an over kill in your opinion?I usualy install roofing papper over the studs-durock- then-tape and mud the seams and install the tile.Been doing it that way forever never had a problem.Thanx
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:38 PM   #20
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Re: Best Backerboard


Angus will be back soon.

I prefer applying a surface membrane. I now only do Kerdi Membrane & Drain showers when I do a complete shower. The secret is the Kerdi Drain and how we do the floor and floor/wall intersections and curb. That is where most of the failures happen.

Your paper on studs is OK, but old school and doesn't compare to surface waterproofing. Methods and products have improved since that was the only choice. All you're doing with plastic or paper on studs is reducing vapor infiltration of the wall cavity. Does nothing for the backer or tile work.

Jaz

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