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Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System

 
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:10 AM   #1
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Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


Hi all. New here!
I am helping with a 15+ mile water pipeline over terrain that has elevation variations (hills and dips). There are 3 or 4 hills over 300 ft. with subsequent valleys on the other side. I am looking at using hdpe pipe 10" or 12" dia . Overall elevation change is +122 ft. flow rate will be 1500 gpm+-500gpm. Does anyone know how to calculate where I need vacuum breaks to prevent pipe collapse due to vacuum on the downhills?
Thanks.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:54 PM   #2
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


what do the engineer's specs call for?

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:57 PM   #3
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


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Old 02-06-2013, 12:13 AM   #4
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


Seeing as you are the "pipline design" guy as shown in your profile, I would say you are the best guy to ask this question. However, I'll take a shot in the dark and tell you what I would do if left to my own devices.

You would have to know or calculate the maximum relief flow of the vacuum break as well as the max pressure differential, aka vacuum created by pipe diameter "x" versus flow on the other side. Density of water, frictional coefficients, gravity, head pressure, etc. all play into this, so alot of info would need to be collected. With that said, it all seems like way too much work, so I would likely call my supplier, get the biggest vacuum break they make and place one on top of each hill and call it a day. It will either work or it won't, but at least I know I saved myself a bunch of money by not hiring an engineer that upon charging me for a final design asks me what I think he should do!!

Welcome to CT and sorry bout bustin your chops, but for a first post you kinda have it coming. Hope you stick around and add to the forums as we can all learn something new.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:49 AM   #5
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


What scale are the plans? Are there any bends? Are restraining glands being used? Can 11" HDPE be used in lieu of 10" or 12"? All these questions, and many more like them, need to be answered in order to get a good idea of where to locate air / vacuum release valves and which way to turn them.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:01 AM   #6
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


Thanks for share this information.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:36 PM   #7
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


I love questions like this. As a contractor we do not design "anything" there are architects for that and engineers to prove it works. What kind of job would not have this on the plans? As a contractor we only build what is on the plans.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:12 PM   #8
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


If there is 122' of head you won't need vacuum valves. You will need air release valves. You will need ARV at the high points in Main. You may need a vacuum/ARV on the last high spot
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:36 PM   #9
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


According to the valve manufacture You should put a combination Air/Vac valve at each high point on your water line. http://www.valvedepot.com/catalogue/.../070254800.htm
Of course you should check with the Civil Engineer who designed the project.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #10
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Re: Where To Place Vacuum Breaks In Hdpe Pipe System


It reads like the project is still in the design stage. At least he thought to ask about the vacum breaks. The installation contractor for this project might want to make sure the proposed design will actually work when the project is finished.

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