Trenching And Pipe Work - Page 2 - Excavation & Site Work - Contractor Talk
View Poll Results: Do you typically provide a safety slope when trenching?
Yes; always 1 6.25%
Only if depth of trench is 4 ft. or more 4 25.00%
Only if depth of trench is 5 ft. or more 2 12.50%
Only if depth of trench is 6 ft. or more 0 0%
No; never 1 6.25%
Depends on the situation, soil type, etc. 5 31.25%
Generally, (not really; only if OSHA is nearby) 0 0%
Do you really expect me to answer this? 3 18.75%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

Trenching And Pipe Work

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-17-2011, 01:44 PM   #21
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,931
Rewards Points: 3,414

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestimator View Post
Iíll give you the last word hereÖ
That doesn't seem to be a strong-suit of yours. Bet we hear from you again.

Gawd, I can't believe I promised not to call you a wind-bag. I painted myself into the corner there, didn't I?
Anti-wingnut is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 11-17-2011, 04:53 PM   #22
Vagitarian
 
rino1494's Avatar
 
Trade: site and utility contractor
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, PA
Posts: 3,589
Rewards Points: 2,388

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Doesn't anybody work during the day ?? Geez, I need to get some popcorn.

OSHA regs state that a trench may be vertical at 5', after that it must benched/sloped. But the bench/slope must start at 4'. This also depends on soil classifications.

What we do is by soil conditions. Some may be benched at 3ft, others higher if the soil is good. Working in the street, we use boxes because it saves on backfill material. Deeper trenches, we use boxes and the bench/slope starts 1ft below top of box, per OSHA regs.
__________________
Life is hard. It is harder when you are stupid

Uncle Sam wants YOU....to speak ENGLISH
rino1494 is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:56 PM   #23
Member
 
SlumberJack's Avatar
 
Trade: Site Work, Concrete, and Masonry
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westchester - NY
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


I hear you rino. Thanks for the response.

So if I understand you correctly, if say you had a 6'-6" deep trench, you'd start benching 2'-6" from grade which leaves the max vertical trench wall of 4'? Of course depending on soil conditions like you said.

Would you figure the same thing when you're excavating for a precast manhole? If the manhole dig is 9' below grade let's say, and there aren't any connections to make below the top 3' or so then you'd be okay to bench from about 5' down from grade right?
SlumberJack is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-17-2011, 06:41 PM   #24
Pro
 
dayexco's Avatar
 
Trade: entrepreneur of excavating expertise
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,383
Rewards Points: 220

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


i'm beginning to wonder why somebody with 10 yrs estimating experience, is asking questions "here"....that are explicitly answered in your OSHA regs book, or in the specifications provided to you by your engineer? do what they both require, and you're good to go. thank goodness it's only thursday nite. this time tomorrow and i'd probably have 3-4 crown royals into me and my response may be totally different

and know this. this is a great group of guys, VERY knowledgeable in their trade. there is a lot of back and forth banter that goes on, for the most part in fun. i am still trying to figure out just where you're going with all this line of questioning when i've seen 3-4 guys do a very good job of answering your question.

Last edited by dayexco; 11-17-2011 at 06:44 PM.
dayexco is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dayexco For This Useful Post:
Anti-wingnut (11-17-2011), peteo (11-18-2011), S.R.E. (11-19-2011), tgeb (11-17-2011)
Old 11-17-2011, 06:45 PM   #25
Vagitarian
 
rino1494's Avatar
 
Trade: site and utility contractor
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, PA
Posts: 3,589
Rewards Points: 2,388

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestimator View Post
So if I understand you correctly, if say you had a 6'-6" deep trench, you'd start benching 2'-6" from grade which leaves the max vertical trench wall of 4'? Of course depending on soil conditions like you said.
Per OSHA regs, yes. What I do in the field depending on soil conditions, is a different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestimator View Post
Would you figure the same thing when you're excavating for a precast manhole? If the manhole dig is 9' below grade let's say, and there aren't any connections to make below the top 3' or so then you'd be okay to bench from about 5' down from grade right?
Sloping manhole excavations is too expensive. Way too much digging, backfill and compaction. It is alot cheaper to throw in a manhole box.
__________________
Life is hard. It is harder when you are stupid

Uncle Sam wants YOU....to speak ENGLISH
rino1494 is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 09:29 PM   #26
Contractor
 
tgeb's Avatar
 
Trade: Excavation, Foundation, Professional Painter!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,303
Rewards Points: 926

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


I tend to agree with Dayexco.

How can you estimate for 10 years, and yet appear to not be familiar with common day to day site conditions/practices? (Compaction of soil in a benched excavation?)

There are tons of posts on this site that address estimating, best working practices, and how to deal with uncertain conditions.

Welcome to the site.

__________________
Tom

www.gebcon.com

Last edited by tgeb; 11-17-2011 at 09:33 PM.
tgeb is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to tgeb For This Useful Post:
Anti-wingnut (11-17-2011)
Old 11-17-2011, 09:34 PM   #27
Pro
 
Elyrain's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oceanside, Ca
Posts: 404
Rewards Points: 442

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


What he came here looking for was an answer that isn't to be found. There is no way to bid against people who don't follow osha/the rules/laws. Find a owner/agency that holds their contractors to the fire for not following osha is your best bet.
Elyrain is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:53 PM   #28
Pro
 
jmacd's Avatar
 
Trade: excavating contractor
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: utica, ny
Posts: 530
Rewards Points: 386

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elyrain View Post
What he came here looking for was an answer that isn't to be found. There is no way to bid against people who don't follow OSHA/the rules/laws. Find a owner/agency that holds their contractors to the fire for not following OSHA is your best bet.
I think you nailed it. Really only one answer if you do it according to OSHA regulations. The rules have no real gray area.

If you don't plan on OSHA inspections or don't think any one will get hurt when the walls come caving in after a heavy rain than do what ever is cheapest for you.

I was thinking that this thread was going to be boring before I opened it. I was so wrong. Very good read!
__________________
www.macdonoughexcavating.com
jmacd is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:27 AM   #29
Pro
 
Sar-Con's Avatar
 
Trade: Civil Construction, Excavation, Concrete + Forming
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 842
Rewards Points: 504

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacd View Post
I think you nailed it. Really only one answer if you do it according to OSHA regulations. The rules have no real gray area.

If you don't plan on OSHA inspections or don't think any one will get hurt when the walls come caving in after a heavy rain than do what ever is cheapest for you.

I was thinking that this thread was going to be boring before I opened it. I was so wrong. Very good read!
It's like the job I bid and lost last year. The depth was 6'-6" for the storm tie in in the middle of the road. Out of curiosity I checked out the site a couple of months later - the patch in the road was only 2' wide
Sar-Con is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:43 AM   #30
Pro
 
jmacd's Avatar
 
Trade: excavating contractor
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: utica, ny
Posts: 530
Rewards Points: 386

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


I open them up BIG.
Trenching and Pipe Work-utica14.jpg

The extra fill etc. really is not that much compared to trying to work in a tiny hole filled with a trench box.
__________________
www.macdonoughexcavating.com
jmacd is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:00 PM   #31
operator
 
peteo's Avatar
 
Trade: excavating, concrete, landscaping
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Erie, Pa
Posts: 394
Rewards Points: 518

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Good point Jmacd. Why pin yourself into a tight spot when you dont have to? besides for what it costs for a few extra ton of gravel its a lot more cost effective than trying to go the other way. I've found that when I try to do a job "cheap" it usually ends up costing me more in the long run.
peteo is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to peteo For This Useful Post:
tgeb (11-20-2011)
Old 11-18-2011, 07:33 PM   #32
Vagitarian
 
rino1494's Avatar
 
Trade: site and utility contractor
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, PA
Posts: 3,589
Rewards Points: 2,388

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Not always. I did a job last year where we ran 8" sewer main across a Penndot road, 14' deep. Penndot regs call for all open cuts to be backfilled under pavement with flowable fill. At $60/yd at 14' deep, we used 24" spreaders on the boxes.
__________________
Life is hard. It is harder when you are stupid

Uncle Sam wants YOU....to speak ENGLISH
rino1494 is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:36 PM   #33
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,931
Rewards Points: 3,414

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Quote:
Due to the nature and delays in response times on the forum at times I would appreciate it if everyone would read the issue(s) noted below carefully so as to fully understand the nature of the post and I'll do the same in reading your response(s)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dayexco View Post
and know this. this is a great group of guys
Me and Sarcon included!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dayexco View Post
VERY knowledgeable in their trade. there is a lot of back and forth banter that goes on, for the most part in fun. i am still trying to figure out just where you're going with all this line of questioning when i've seen 3-4 guys do a very good job of answering your question.
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

Last edited by Anti-wingnut; 11-18-2011 at 07:40 PM.
Anti-wingnut is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:07 PM   #34
Pro
 
Redneckpete's Avatar
 
Trade: Excavation
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 108
Rewards Points: 77

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


With regard to the trench question. On a five foot deep trench, Iím not shoring regardless of the soil conditions. In solid, stable material Iím digging five feet deep straight down, pounding in the pipe and backfilling right behind me. In unstable material, Iím doing the same thing, except Iím sloping the sides of the trench until its safe for me and my employees to work in the bottom. Here, code says four feet then one to one slope. I donít care what code says, I have to work in the hole. Iíll cut more if I have to feel safe.

Typically Iíd put the back of the bucket down on the bank about one and half times the width of the trench. If I can push down and cave it in, itís coming out.

Pete
Redneckpete is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:36 PM   #35
Chuck
 
S.R.E.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Excavating, Clearing, Underground Utilities
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 523
Rewards Points: 506

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by rino1494 View Post
Doesn't anybody work during the day ?? Geez, I need to get some popcorn.

OSHA regs state that a trench may be vertical at 5', after that it must benched/sloped. But the bench/slope must start at 4'. This also depends on soil classifications.

What we do is by soil conditions. Some may be benched at 3ft, others higher if the soil is good. Working in the street, we use boxes because it saves on backfill material. Deeper trenches, we use boxes and the bench/slope starts 1ft below top of box, per OSHA regs.
I'm not picking on Rino just making a point.

If I followed this OSHA reg I would be Illegal. Here in WA you need to follow L & I Regulations which state that anything over 4' needs to be shored or sloped. How you slope or shore your trench depends on your type of soil classifications. If class "C" soil (Which you must assume all soil is class "C" unless you have a report from a Geo engineer stating otherwise.) anything over 4' deep must be sloped from the BOTTOM of the trench at a min of 1.5 to 1. There is a very detailed bunch of specs that detail what you can do.

My point is that you need to dig into the specs that your State goes by and you should probably attend a training that deals with the shoring /sloping requirements in your area where work will be preformed.
S.R.E. is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:45 PM   #36
Member
 
SlumberJack's Avatar
 
Trade: Site Work, Concrete, and Masonry
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westchester - NY
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Trenching And Pipe Work


Great info guys... really very impressive and I appreciate your time and expertise...

I applaud everyone on the forum for their knowledge and I'll be the first one to say I spoke too soon in my first post on this thread. I apologize (again). I should clarify since I noticed a couple got the wrong impression; I wasn't griping about the responses I've received here thus far on this thread; I appreciate them all...it was before I had gotten any responses; in the initial post, where I was hoping guys would read the question(s) carefully.

You have to understand when I say I've been doing this 10 years; I haven't been digging trenches for 10 years...as I mentioned in another thread, I've been sitting behind a desk for 10 years so the difference in practical skills on the job are vastly different then yours...

I bid, do takeoffs, and cost engineer all day, every day....I win millions of dollars worth in jobs for my company... and it wasn't until the last few years did I start getting into utility work so this is where I'm coming from. Don't get me wrong; I've been on enough job sites and can get by in 97% of situations with practical knowledge from my previous/current co-workers both in the field and in the office but occasionally things come up that I need some clarification on.

In a nutshell; I think some misunderstood my intent; it wasn't a "how to" question as much as it was a "I'm used to doing it like this, but how do these other guys do it" type of question.

Thanks again guys; really looking forward to reading more here.

Advertisement


Last edited by SlumberJack; 11-19-2011 at 03:53 PM.
SlumberJack is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to SlumberJack For This Useful Post:
rino1494 (11-19-2011)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trenching Production denick Excavation & Site Work 4 04-18-2006 04:56 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?