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Getting Tired Of Bidding

 
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Old 02-18-2010, 08:06 AM   #21
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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Originally Posted by joasis View Post
And if a sub did that to me, he needs to hope the other GC will keep him busy, because he won't ever get any work from me again.

It is another matter if a sub is contacted by a competing GC, and asked for a bid.....but to seek out the GC's is a sure way to ruin your relationships.

so your subs can only work for you unless solicited by another gc? wow
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:08 AM   #22
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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Got a set of prints from someone with no computer, 15 helical piers, grade beams, keystone wall's and some fill. Got all my numbers together,turned in my bid. Well before I turned my bid in found a page full of problems on the print. turned that in also. Get a phone call break down your bid, so I did that. Got the phone call what ia what is wrong with the print. Son takes over the job another trip to the site, go over the print. Got the phone call have to break my bid down more, well the way the job is designed it will not work due to the fact there is a 6' fill were the stairs go down to walk into the finished porch. He still what's the bid broke down to the print. No one has shot grades besides me. I have 3 trips to the site, 35 hours into the bid, now I think my numbers are being shopped around, found this out from a supplier. I have not given him the last break down he asked for. I don't to lose the job. The job will take me 2 days to due, in the field. Should I give him the last break down or weight till the prints are done right ? Digger
At the risk of getting called a n00b, I'm going to say that I thought invitation to bid meant you read the scope of work, figure out the materials then you either decline, or submit a bid. I don't see why you need to break it down. If the customer have a project manager figure it out for him
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:25 AM   #23
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


It would be nice to have your "regular GC's" support you all the time.
IMO, You have to find other GC's just like they find other sub's. Loyalty is nice but it is a two way street I want to have as many customers as possible.



Rino, the owner is: INTERCONTINENTAL HOTELS GROUP out of Atlanta and the GC is GVH.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:08 AM   #24
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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so your subs can only work for you unless solicited by another gc? wow

Think about it from another point of view.

How do I know what you might do to get the job, including "special pricing" for a competitor?

This is a free country, for sure...and what I am pointing out is my own position on bids. I compete with other custom home builders, and we use the same subs. If I were to find out my competitor gets a better price then I do, I find another sub.

It is easier to not have to deal with a potential conflict of interest, and have good relationships with sub contractors.

I know many won't see it that way, but loyalty still exists in this business.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:45 AM   #25
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


I don't mind the bidding but the prints that have came out in the past couple years have been JUNK, just bad enginering and when you have that to work with, you get on the site the job gets shut down untill the problems are solved more money you lose. digger
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:24 PM   #26
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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Originally Posted by joasis View Post
Think about it from another point of view.

How do I know what you might do to get the job, including "special pricing" for a competitor?

This is a free country, for sure...and what I am pointing out is my own position on bids. I compete with other custom home builders, and we use the same subs. If I were to find out my competitor gets a better price then I do, I find another sub.

It is easier to not have to deal with a potential conflict of interest, and have good relationships with sub contractors.

I know many won't see it that way, but loyalty still exists in this business.
Residential is different than commercial in the bidding sense. Most residential contractors only get a price from their regular subs. Commercial GC's get prices from many different subs looking for the cheapest. You cannot put all your eggs in one basket. When there are excavators bidding through 1 GC, you need to place bids with other GC's to give yourself a better shot. Loyaltly is a great thing, but when it comes time to paying bills and putting food on the table, you need to explore your options.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:25 PM   #27
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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Originally Posted by jmacd View Post


Rino, the owner is: INTERCONTINENTAL HOTELS GROUP out of Atlanta and the GC is GVH.

Different owners.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:49 PM   #28
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


unfortunately ... this is the life 'we chose'. isn't it funny how GC's and Developers call bidders all the time, at all hours concerning bid items and breakdowns. but when we call 'them', they can't be 'reached'. yes, they probably shopped your bid. we have a choice. i'm kind of stating the obvious here, but you need to 'track' your bid results. don't waste your time bidding to clients who will never use you ! so no, you don't bid to everyone on the bid list. unfortunately, there's only one way to find out if they'll ever use you. one last note, 'incomplete' bid documents are usually budget / preliminary bids, that may or may not ever get built.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:11 PM   #29
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


I have GC's that are given my proposals as they ask for them....there are a few that i ask when and where they're going to open them so i can be present and tell the low bidder if they did/didn't get the job...if they're reluctant to do that, i don't submit a proposal to them. we have several local GC's that pick up the cheapest hooker on the corner, and when they can't get them off....they come back to us and ask us to finish the job for the low bidder's price....i don't submit proposals to those john's anymore....my arse got sore a long time ago.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:29 AM   #30
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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Originally Posted by rino1494 View Post
No, it is in Dickson City, Pa........near Scranton. I can't remember the GC from NY that is bidding.

Who is the owner of the building ??
Interesting, I put together some numbers on this for a smaller GC ... was told it was a bid he "lost" ... never heard from him again... at least I assume it's the same plans I had spread across my dining room table for a short week... hmmm how many Dickson City PA Holiday Inn Expresses there are... {sigh}
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:54 AM   #31
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


Just wanted to point out the irony of our lives. When we go to an auction of equiptment for some other poor ditch digger (probably a hard working fellow like you and me) and pour over his iron and bid a price to own it, its the high bid that wins.

But when we bid a job, its the low bid that wins. (and of course, today even a low bid may not get you anything).

Gotta love bidding.

I was told some time ago, I think by Michael Stone, that if you bid 3 jobs with any GC and get non of them, you need a sit down to see where you need to be to win a job with them. If you dont get the 4th job, never deal with them again. Your either not getting a fair shake or that GC's market is something that is not a fit for you.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:03 AM   #32
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


I also do not like the term "bidding" as with most projects I do, there are not any plans, material specs, etc. Using the auction analogy, I may be bidding on a D10 high track, and the next guy is bidding on a JD 350. The homeowner thinks a dozer is just a dozer so they end up with the JD 350 even though they described/needed the D10.

The worst is when you are verbally given the job, proceed to shoot grades in order to draw up cut/fill diagrams, spec out all of the materials, engineering, site plans, etc. They schedule you for the job and then you find out someone else is doing it using a lot of your legwork. The best, however, is when the guy that "stole" your job doesn't engineer it and then you drive by 2mos later and they still haven't poured a foundation. I don't take enjoyment out of other's sorrows, however, sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way.

Bidding is tough, but if you educate the customer, then you are not locked into the numbers game unless they don't understand the difference. Those that don't understand the difference are a long ways away from being a repeat customer. Repeat customer's are the ones you want.

Good luck everyone!!
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:13 PM   #33
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


99.9% of my work is sub work. i never give special pricing to anyone, infact certain guys who are tough to pay get higher quotes than there competitors bidding the job. i may bid the same job for a dozen people, each will get the same number. if one of the guys i bid it for didn't get it, i fax my bid over to whoever did.

i do respect your loyalty though, but in my market people will go with a go with a bad reputation to save 2% on a job.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by joasis View Post
Think about it from another point of view.

How do I know what you might do to get the job, including "special pricing" for a competitor?

This is a free country, for sure...and what I am pointing out is my own position on bids. I compete with other custom home builders, and we use the same subs. If I were to find out my competitor gets a better price then I do, I find another sub.

It is easier to not have to deal with a potential conflict of interest, and have good relationships with sub contractors.

I know many won't see it that way, but loyalty still exists in this business.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:47 PM   #34
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


I bid a job back last month with all high qual products and lost, the winning bid was two hundred dollars cheaper than me and used cheap products and it shows. Just boggles my mind why people are so cheap both on products and money wise. I also was promised a big job and was very excited, shows how far a handshake does not go these days cause two weeks later after I did all the footwork and layouts and was promised they'd have a contract in hand they gave it to a different guy and then when he showed up with his crew to officially start the project some how got canceled!! I just dont get how people are so dishonest.
Then another gc i bid him a really good price on one job last july, last month i get a contract in the mail for that job, well price has gone up i tell him...he says well just sign and well work on a change order...not sure ill sign it. havent yet! just seems fishy to me..esspecially with all the so called honest people out there.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:09 PM   #35
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


the scariest part of this whole scenario is.....good GC's and customer's we've built a good reputation with....are now scrambling like we are...if they don't take the low bid? they be without work? move this to politics and religion if you like...but FUG you FRANK/REID/PELOSI!!!
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:28 PM   #36
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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the scariest part of this whole scenario is.....good GC's and customer's we've built a good reputation with....are now scrambling like we are...if they don't take the low bid? they be without work? move this to politics and religion if you like...but FUG you FRANK/REID/PELOSI!!!
A builder told me as much last year. We worked for him 5 years & had no complaints. He actually called me to tell me that he would be using another guy who gave him a great price on excavation & foundation.

Due to market drop he barely made any money on the previous 2 houses he built. Can't say I blame the guy & he'll probably be back because he also told me his new subs are a pain in the ass.

BTW, here here to your thoughts on the 3 stooges you mentioned.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:16 AM   #37
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Just wanted to point out the irony of our lives. When we go to an auction of equiptment for some other poor ditch digger (probably a hard working fellow like you and me) and pour over his iron and bid a price to own it, its the high bid that wins.

But when we bid a job, its the low bid that wins. (and of course, today even a low bid may not get you anything).
Bidding on money on an item(cars, clothes, etc) There is nothing to consider other than the item when you make. Only problems you have to worry about are shills, bidders who knows the history of the item that others don't and such.

When you bid a job you want to do, you'll have to study what you'll be doing so you're not short changing yourself while not making you the distant next highest bidder.

i.e. when you bid $25,000 and other bidders are $25,222, $24,975 and $25,500, that's where your history and non-tangible makes the difference. If you bid $35,000 in there, chances are you'll be off the list without a second thought.

If you're the one who consistently place higher than median bids or on many projects or have horrible records and putting you DQ'd before even getting there, that might explain why you're not getting anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge07around View Post
I just dont get how people are so dishonest.
Then another gc i bid him a really good price on one job last july, last month i get a contract in the mail for that job, well price has gone up i tell him...he says well just sign and well work on a change order...not sure ill sign it. havent yet! just seems fishy to me..esspecially with all the so called honest people out there.
1.) Last July? Did you not stipulate validity duration? This sounds like an offer from him, rather than a contract since its likely outside the time frame you're contractually obligated. If you sign it and send it back, you accepted his offer to have you complete the job for the same price.

2.)You'd be stupid to sign it. If you sign it, go with whats on the paper.

If you want this job and you're happy with everything on the bid except the pricing, change the numbers in Word, submit him a NEW offer with today's date, expiration date with the new price, sign it and and submit it to him.

Last edited by Electric_Light; 02-20-2010 at 05:27 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:00 PM   #38
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


I've made it a point to use the term "quote" whenever I deal with customers, and even around the office. I don't want the customer to automatically think that we need to be shopped around, and I don't want to feel like I'm up against the world and every John Q. Handyman that will low ball me every time I put together numbers.

I think I took that lesson from Micheal Stone as well. I believe he said something along the lines of:

We don't offer bids, we offer quotes. We don't budge on our numbers to undermine another contractor's quote, because it's unethical and unprofessional. A company that has it's **** together knows what it has to charge to stay in business.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:42 PM   #39
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


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I've made it a point to use the term "quote" whenever I deal with customers, and even around the office. I don't want the customer to automatically think that we need to be shopped around, and I don't want to feel like I'm up against the world and every John Q. Handyman that will low ball me every time I put together numbers.

I think I took that lesson from Micheal Stone as well. I believe he said something along the lines of:

We don't offer bids, we offer quotes. We don't budge on our numbers to undermine another contractor's quote, because it's unethical and unprofessional. A company that has it's **** together knows what it has to charge to stay in business.

I like that!! Thats how it should always be no matter the situation.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:37 PM   #40
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Re: Getting Tired Of Bidding


I have seen a change in discretion when submitting bids over the last 30 years. Prior to the Eighty's, when submitting a bid, most GC's would honor the the lowest bid submitted prior to bid opening. You could call the GC and feel pretty comfortable that if you gave them the lowest price and had everything included, you would end up with the job. That was the honor system. This no longer is the case.

Seems like somewhere in the mid-Eighty's a slow change occurred. The "shopping" of bids started occurring.

This now seems to be the norm.

The only consolation remains is value. A smart GC or home owner will realize that you, more often times than not, get what you pay for.

Many things to consider such as;

Is the low bidder going to show up when he is supposed to?

Is the low bidder going to perform proposed work in a successful sell-able manner?

Is the low bidder going to carry and maintain the required insurance and bonds?

Is the low bidder going to pay his material, equipment, &/or labor bills?

Is the low bidder going to be there if maintenance is required or if there is a problem?

Probably not.

There are a few remaining GC's who realize this quality in firms. These are the relationships we must strive to attain and perform with successfully.

Times are hard enough without being asked how "cheap" can we do the job.

A smart GC or Home owner will realize this and understand the true meaning of value priced work.

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