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Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.

 
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:17 PM   #1
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Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


For the record one of my employees and I will be attending class for RRP cert in the weeks ahead, the goal is for my company to be RRP compliant by end of 2016. For years I said I would just avoid painting these pre '78 homes but frankly there is so much of this type of work that i do not want to loose out on. I am not talking about the corncob dumps but the grand beautiful homes of the 1800's and early 1900's.

For years we have always power washed houses as part of the prep before painting, but is this the best approach? RRP rules already have us opening our eyes to a new way of thinking regarding exterior paint prep etc.

With RRP rules and EPA rules for water run off that more and more people are becoming aware of I find myself asking what are other options for painting prep?

My washer is about 20 years old and replacement is inevitable sooner rather than later. So I am wondering if I should be considering investing in newer methods rather than replacing it.

So that was the long way of saying I am ok with change.
I hear of people suggesting media blasting with walnut shells, dry ice etc etc.

So what should I be thinking and learning about with the idea of media blasting on such a large scale as a house exterior. One idea is to sub it out but no one in my area is doing it. Avoid it all together is another comment i hear. I really have no desire to focus on media blasting on any scale other than doing my own prep work.

Is media blasting acceptable as a paint prep to remove only loose material rather than a total stripping off of the previous paint? Would total removal then take you into the world of abatement?

When i bring up this discussion the topic becomes the cost to the customer. First, I am not competing with the lowest bidder on any of my work. Second, I believe as people become more aware of these rules they will expect companies they hire to act responsibly too.
Third, washing and scraping is not exactly cheap, as it is very labor intensive.
Finally there will always be those who say "look what i can afford to have done".
I appreciate your thoughts and comments.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:24 PM   #2
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


I still powerwash, as do others who are RRP certified. Cheap and fast, as long as you can have the containment and collection / filtering correct.

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Old 10-29-2016, 06:01 PM   #3
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


If I do any major paint work, I am going to sub the power washing out. I have no desire to worry about water containment and all the other crap that is coming down the pike.

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Old 10-29-2016, 07:06 PM   #4
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


The great thing is RRP freaks out so many people, eventually I can charge $1000 an hour to do it.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:40 PM   #5
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


Paint prep is paint prep, it isn't abatement, so you're good for RRP. Even if you have to strip off all the old to get a good bond with the new paint, that's just painting.

Low pressure washing doesn't trigger the RRP pressure washing regulations. I don't recall the cutoff, but I think it's 100 PSI. Below that, you're just washing and rinsing.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:41 PM   #6
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


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If I do any major paint work, I am going to sub the power washing out. I have no desire to worry about water containment and all the other crap that is coming down the pike.

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It's already here. You have to collect and filter the water...
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:53 PM   #7
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


I wouldn't want to run media blasting and have to have HEPA running to catch all the media and paint coming off. It would have to be a rig designed and certified to be RRP compliant by the manufacturer. I don't even know if such a thing is made.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:38 PM   #8
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


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Originally Posted by VinylHanger View Post
If I do any major paint work, I am going to sub the power washing out. I have no desire to worry about water containment and all the other crap that is coming down the pike.

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Are you familiar with respondeat superior? You can try to pawn the regulatory risk off on a sub but the prime contractor is still liable for the work of the people he hires.

Perfect example is the tracy morgan case. Independent trucker hits morgan. Morgan sues walmart as the primary employer of the trucker under respondeat superior.

Ive had gcs stick me with giant indemification clauses on rrp work. If someone could prove a tort (injury or financial loss) I doubt the indemnification would mean anything.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:40 PM   #9
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


What I ended up doing on exterior rrp was wash and scrape by hand over plastic and prime with a truck load of peel bond.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:46 PM   #10
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


I'm with golden view! It has lead, it cost big $$ . I'm charging you extreme amounts of money because your government requires me to. I took special classes to learn that most contractors won't touch this. I will at a gazillion $$$/hr. Here's your rough estimate, I'm sure it will be more.

If the wind blows, I will have to set up vertical containment, cost plus 300%. Oh, if it rains, I have to collect and filter the run off, cost plus 400%. Oh yes, if my crew has to work more than a day, you have to buy them all new clothes, plus 500%.. Hey sport, I also need a $1000 hepatitis vacuum, that's on you too. A new one every job. Don't forget a secretary's salary to keep the paperwork for a gazillion years. And the last line is always misc $3000 RRP supplies.

I LOVE LEAD!!!!! BOAT LOADS OF CASH.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:46 PM   #11
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


As always I appreciate all the replies.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:49 PM   #12
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PCI View Post
I'm with golden view! It has lead, it cost big $$ . I'm charging you extreme amounts of money because your government requires me to. I took special classes to learn that most contractors won't touch this. I will at a gazillion $$$/hr. Here's your rough estimate, I'm sure it will be more.

If the wind blows, I will have to set up vertical containment, cost plus 300%. Oh, if it rains, I have to collect and filter the run off, cost plus 400%. Oh yes, if my crew has to work more than a day, you have to buy them all new clothes, plus 500%.. Hey sport, I also need a $1000 hepatitis vacuum, that's on you too. A new one every job. Don't forget a secretary's salary to keep the paperwork for a gazillion years. And the last line is always misc $3000 RRP supplies.

I LOVE LEAD!!!!! BOAT LOADS OF CASH.
$1000 for a Hepatitis vacuum...sounds like a steal

Last edited by PRP; 10-29-2016 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:56 PM   #13
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PCI View Post
I'm with golden view! It has lead, it cost big $$ . I'm charging you extreme amounts of money because your government requires me to. I took special classes to learn that most contractors won't touch this. I will at a gazillion $$$/hr. Here's your rough estimate, I'm sure it will be more.

If the wind blows, I will have to set up vertical containment, cost plus 300%. Oh, if it rains, I have to collect and filter the run off, cost plus 400%. Oh yes, if my crew has to work more than a day, you have to buy them all new clothes, plus 500%.. Hey sport, I also need a $1000 hepatitis vacuum, that's on you too. A new one every job. Don't forget a secretary's salary to keep the paperwork for a gazillion years. And the last line is always misc $3000 RRP supplies.

I LOVE LEAD!!!!! BOAT LOADS OF CASH.
I realize you are being sarcastic, however, unfortunately, you aren't too far from the truth. I don';t even want to deal with rrp painting work. I would need to triple the price to even think about it. That make s a 6,000 dollar job 18 grand. The sad thing is it takes three times the work and effort.

I think peal bond is the way to go these days. Jeez, I wonder what 30 gallons of that stuff costs. Then it has to be put on by hand, doesn't it?

One big 2 story farmhouse would be my whole summer.

Anybody use the Zinsser PeelStop?
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Last edited by VinylHanger; 10-29-2016 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 10-29-2016, 11:04 PM   #14
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


Sorry about spell check, hepa vacuum.

I kid you not what I charge. I did a lot of 203k loan work. I still do a lot of bank owned crap. The bank has to pay to unload this crap.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:18 AM   #15
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PCI View Post
I'm with golden view! It has lead, it cost big $$ . I'm charging you extreme amounts of money because your government requires me to. I took special classes to learn that most contractors won't touch this. I will at a gazillion $$$/hr. Here's your rough estimate, I'm sure it will be more.

If the wind blows, I will have to set up vertical containment, cost plus 300%. Oh, if it rains, I have to collect and filter the run off, cost plus 400%. Oh yes, if my crew has to work more than a day, you have to buy them all new clothes, plus 500%.. Hey sport, I also need a $1000 hepatitis vacuum, that's on you too. A new one every job. Don't forget a secretary's salary to keep the paperwork for a gazillion years. And the last line is always misc $3000 RRP supplies.

I LOVE LEAD!!!!! BOAT LOADS OF CASH.
Hepatitis vacuum............i laughed so hard at such a though I woke the dog up sleeping next to me. Is that code for a call girl?
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:33 AM   #16
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


I've almost wondered if a bucket of soapy water and a deck brush on a pole to scrub dirt then garden hose to rinse. Would be a walk around for the rules? Still have to process the water?

Sometimes new siding is the way to go. Stops the repeat rrp costs in ten years when today's paint fails.
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:17 AM   #17
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


Lots to think about. I am trying to get my head around if I should be taking a new approach to how we prep. I suppose I am confusing the issue, following RRP is a given, but power washing adds the EPA run off rules too. No sense following one and not the other. Hence my question if I should be looking at other methods.

If we were to take on RRP repaint work where loose paint had to be scraped I am wondering if there are more efficient methods than power washing and hand scraping?
The more I read about media blasting it quickly becomes apparent that it is its own specialized trade with regards to equipment and such. When you start talking about towable compressors and such then that is the sort of equipment that needs to be getting used on a daily basis not something I would invest in for just doing my own prep work on maybe half a dozen houses a year

I do not want to come off sounding like I want to "get around" RRP regs. Continuing the way we currently prep and incorporating the regulations is one option, I am wanting to see if I should be thinking about a whole new approach.
Thanks again.
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Old 10-30-2016, 09:17 AM   #18
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


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I've almost wondered if a bucket of soapy water and a deck brush on a pole to scrub dirt then garden hose to rinse. Would be a walk around for the rules? Still have to process the water?

Sometimes new siding is the way to go. Stops the repeat rrp costs in ten years when today's paint fails.
If you wind up having a bunch of peeled paint on the ground and you're using any mechanical cleaning, the EPA is going to hold you should have followed RRP regulations, since you disturbed the paint.

If all you do is low pressure spray on a regular old cleaner and rinse it off, you have a better argument. Whatever came off was just on there lightly and waiting for the next rain to come off.

Collecting and filtering the water isn't always that difficult.
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Old 10-30-2016, 09:39 AM   #19
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


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Lots to think about. I am trying to get my head around if I should be taking a new approach to how we prep.
If you already tarp the side of a building before working on it, then you're already doing the most PITA part. Around here, it's usually worth doing that so you don't have to worry about rain wetting your already prepped siding.

If you work off of an alumapole system or something like that, containing the water is pretty easy. You just have a frame above the ground that uses 6 mil plastic to collect it and channel it to whatever you use for filtration. The poles go through the plastic, which is taped to the poles. Using ladders and having to move them around is more of a problem.

I used to use a 4gpm 3700PSI capable pressure washer. Very fast, but the air currents that get set up when you're working inside containment can be a problem with the containment. If the lot line is far enough away to not need containment, just water collection, then it's a much better situation. Inside containment, I use an electric pressure washer at lower pressure. Not as good and not as fast as the 13HP gas washer, but you can do adequate prep with care.
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:55 PM   #20
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Re: Getting Away From Power Washing For Paint Prep.


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If you already tarp the side of a building before working on it, then you're already doing the most PITA part. Around here, it's usually worth doing that so you don't have to worry about rain wetting your already prepped siding.

If you work off of an alumapole system or something like that, containing the water is pretty easy. You just have a frame above the ground that uses 6 mil plastic to collect it and channel it to whatever you use for filtration. The poles go through the plastic, which is taped to the poles. Using ladders and having to move them around is more of a problem.

I used to use a 4gpm 3700PSI capable pressure washer. Very fast, but the air currents that get set up when you're working inside containment can be a problem with the containment. If the lot line is far enough away to not need containment, just water collection, then it's a much better situation. Inside containment, I use an electric pressure washer at lower pressure. Not as good and not as fast as the 13HP gas washer, but you can do adequate prep with care.
Commericial work sure. Your odds of landing a full tent bid on residential work is pretty low in all but the swankiest of zip codes.

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