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Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring

 
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:32 AM   #21
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
To hell with the DIY argument! Let us move forward and help out a Solid and Established Member of OUR Contractor Community!

Helping out another Contractor is the Primary Purpose of this site.
He already got the help he wanted. On the DIYchat site.
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:33 AM   #22
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


Well, if you ask on a DIY, people will be happy to explain that black wire is hot, white wire is neutral and that green/bare is ground. That sort of thing. When you go to an electrical section of this forum, the fellow members respond with an expectation that you know these basics. If you go to a calculus forum, then people help you out assuming you know basic algebra.

So, if you need someone to hold your hands through the whole steps, then the DIY chat site is definitely the way to go...
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:13 PM   #23
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
To hell with the DIY argument! Let us move forward and help out a Solid and Established Member of OUR Contractor Community!

Helping out another Contractor is the Primary Purpose of this site.
Hey Malco, it was neat seeing your name. Hope things are good....HOWEVER:
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:21 PM   #24
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


Hey Malco it was nice to see your name. Hopefully things are good....HOWEVER:

There wasn't a debate on weather or not to give the guy a hand. Heck the advise was there already if he wanted it. Personally, I would rather a ct member go to our site here to get the help here as opposed to the diy site. I was simply stating a certain point about posting at diy. I think, some may agree. Others don't, it's all good.

The diy argument is a valid one as it affects not only our business, but all others as well.
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:58 PM   #25
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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The diy argument is a valid one as it affects not only our business, but all others as well.
How does it affect your business? If you feel a couple paragraphs and a manual or two online takes away your business, because people do the work themselves, then those who feel that way need to focus on think about why they're so easily replaceable and work on something that doesn't rely on keeping "tricks of trade" secret.

Skills and competency is not replaceable by a crash course. It's like saying art/music classes may affect professional artists earning.

There are many people in the trade who teach at community college and trade schools. Knowing how to do it and experience is one thing. They do what they do, because they have additional skills. Knowing how to convey what they know to other people.

Last edited by Electric_Light; 11-21-2010 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:11 AM   #26
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


DIY definately effects our business. As with all trades. We repair furnaces for a living, an auto mechanic repairs cars for a living...etc. When people choose to diy, that is lost source of revenue. We are all guilty of DIY, I am not hating on that aspect. However, when I try to repair my car, I do not go to the garage for advise, unless, I am at the point where I am out of answers, and, I expect to pay. That's all part of diy, you are supposed to also f(figure)iy as well.

Most people don't want to know how a furnace works, they just want to know how to get their furnace to work. Sometimes, all it takes is a paragraph or two to explain how to get it going, which is a lost source of revenue to some hvac, outfit. The internet thing is a double edge sword. On one hand it's a great source of information, on the other hand it's too good a source of information.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:52 AM   #27
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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Most people don't want to know how a furnace works, they just want to know how to get their furnace to work. Sometimes, all it takes is a paragraph or two to explain how to get it going, which is a lost source of revenue to some hvac, outfit. The internet thing is a double edge sword. On one hand it's a great source of information, on the other hand it's too good a source of information.
If you're competing for something any monkey can be taught how to do and you make it work with a few paragraphs and you look down upon those who share information, you're basically just saying how little capital equipment is needed and how easily replaced some of your skills are and that's time to think about what your competencies are.

Automotive industry is quite open. Just about anyone can go to O'Reilley's and buy an alternator for their car, yet you can't just march into Johnstone's and buy a new condenser fan motor. You know that if you're dealing with modern cars, replacing an alternator is much more laborious than a residential A/C condenser fan.

As someone else said somewhere on one of these HVAC internets thingy, some service techs struggle just as much, if not more than DIYers especially when it comes to controls and electrical and manufacturers and suppliers offer "technical support" to explain DIY trivial stuff to service techs.

Good troubleshooting skills, excellent communication and teaching skills allow people to make money talking to people about furnace while others feel the strong need to restrict information and access to parts, so they can make money doing the mechanical work and marking up parts.

You are where you are, because somebody taught you one way or another. Even if you "self studied" what enabled you to learn is that someone took the effort to publish(be it textbooks, the internet, library books, or whatever) resources for you to use, and someone taught you how to read, write and talk.

You don't go ask a garage expecting free advise on a car, but I don't call a HVAC service company and ask to talk to a tech for free technical support either.

There are internet forums where user can discuss/share advise about cars, stereos, sex, crime, drugs, HVAC, business, and whatever, and bicker over the correctness of advise. "it creates competition for fairly unskilled labor" is a lousy excuse for trying to prevent others from sharing info. Even before the internet, there were books.

If you don't want to tell explain it, don't. I don't do 95% of stuff on my car even if I know how to do it unless there's enough cost benefit. I know how to rotate tires, but I'm not spending two hours futzing with jack stands. I'll let some shop who has a lift do it in 10 minutes for $20.

Last edited by Electric_Light; 11-24-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:35 PM   #28
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


well after all the banter, here is a link to honeywell with the wiring scheme. the R terminal transformer is the transformer the common is to be taken from, ensure the jumper to there rc and r terminal is removed.

http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...69-2057EFS.pdf
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:31 PM   #29
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


Nick.

I already went over the wiring with him on the DIY site.

And I think you miss read that manual.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:25 PM   #30
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


Mr. Light, I am for sharing and helping... in general. I also am aware that there are many diyers who are quite capable of figuring out how to fix X. I don't begudge diy, nor do I begrudge giving out info. However, this is a business thing.
Picture this: Lady asks Mr. Lee the local cleaner, how he gets shirts soo clean... Sssshhhh, ancient Chineese secret....Mrs. Lee calls her husband some hotshot while rolling her eyes. The final scene...We need more Cal-Gon!!!..... Oooohhh, ancient Chineese secret eh? questions the lady.

First of all, I really don't see Mrs. Lee shouting about the Cal-gon thing would ever happen, but whatever. Anyways, dolling out hvac advise to the diy is similar to Mrs. Lee's actions.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:51 PM   #31
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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Originally Posted by flashheatingand View Post
Anyways, dolling out hvac advise to the diy is similar to Mrs. Lee's actions.
In other words, you're against revealing to the world that (to borrow from a standing joke in the Electrical forum) it's so simple that a 12 year old could do it?

You would probably have appreciated being a guild member back in the Middle Ages; they loved to shroud their trades in secrecy.

First off, most people are quite willing to hire a pro when it comes to the technical trades, acknowledging their own limitations.

DIYers are no real threat to professionals. Those who try it and screw it up are going to provide you with more work and profit than if they had just called you in the first place. Those who do all of their homework and get it right are only going to do so a few times in their life, and will be inefficient at it due to lack of experience and resources.

And as a former DIY-almost-anythinger, I can vouch for the fact that eventually almost all of them wind up getting the hint after a decade or two of forehead-bricking, and just pay to have the work done while they concentrate on more appealing pastimes.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:00 PM   #32
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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Nick.

I already went over the wiring with him on the DIY site.

And I think you miss read that manual.

uggh, yer right. i just breezed through it. its the Rc. i wish i was older to blame it on old age.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:01 PM   #33
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


Never been against sharing the knowledge. If you want to do so, do it here, write a blog, heck form a local hvac group to discuss local matters once a month. But, this is our business (heating, plumbing, carpentry..etc), do you go to a used tool store and ask the shop keeper where he gets his supplies? Why doesn't KFC just put their secret recipie on-line?

Am I alone here? What, no back-court support?
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:04 PM   #34
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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uggh, yer right. i just breezed through it. its the Rc. i wish i was older to blame it on old age.
Do you wear glasses. if so. Blame it on not having them on when you read it.

Thats what I do. Although. It usually is because I'm really not wearing.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:44 PM   #35
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


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Originally Posted by flashheatingand View Post
Never been against sharing the knowledge. If you want to do so, do it here, write a blog, heck form a local hvac group to discuss local matters once a month. But, this is our business (heating, plumbing, carpentry..etc), do you go to a used tool store and ask the shop keeper where he gets his supplies? Why doesn't KFC just put their secret recipie on-line?

Am I alone here? What, no back-court support?
There are two ways to protect it. Patents, and trade secret. "trick of the trades" usually don't fall under legally recognized definition of trade secret. If you/your company have proprietary knowledge specific to your organization (i.e. source code to program, recipe etc) just keep it hash hash. If it's something that goes around in the industry, thats not considered proprietary information.

If you've got something truly new and unique, patent it and you'll get something like 20 years of exclusive rights.

Something that's "common knowledge" in the industry doesn't count.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:45 AM   #36
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Re: Quick ? Re- Thermostat Wiring


What are you talking about? We gladly share about energy savings tips, proper ductwork, the difference in appliances, and contractors. But, it's not our duty to teach or share how to fix a furnace. In general, its on a case by case basis. Many diyers are capable of doing it and chose to take on the task. When they aren't certain, they seek free information (no hate). But here's cool breeze in Miami telling Chicago diy how to fix it's and one less customer on the Chicago list. It could be a plumbing problem or a leaking roof, or a medical one.

This is a contractor site, and I am talking to other hvac contractors and/or small contractors. I think I have given several examples and my point should have been taken. If you want to help at the diy, go for it.

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